A Publisher's Perspective: the Pushkin Press and Fantasy in Translation Part 1 of 2 - Guest Daniel Seton

WEBVTT100:00:06.600 --> 00:00:08.550Hello, and welcome to myth makers.200:00:09.220 --> 00:00:13.710Myth makers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy creatives300:00:13.780 --> 00:00:18.150brought to you by the Oxford center for fantasy. My name is Julia Golding.400:00:18.410 --> 00:00:19.070I'm an author,500:00:19.070 --> 00:00:24.070but I also run the center and today I'm joined by someone from the publishing600:00:24.070 --> 00:00:25.350world. Uh,700:00:25.370 --> 00:00:30.350so please meet Daniel Seton who works for a very interesting publisher800:00:30.410 --> 00:00:35.030in the UK called the Pushkin press. So hello to Daniel.900:00:36.040 --> 00:00:39.230Hello. Thanks very much for having me on. It's very exciting.1000:00:39.570 --> 00:00:42.750So, uh, many people who are, um, you know,1100:00:42.900 --> 00:00:47.350keen on fantasy could imagine themselves working in the world of publishing1200:00:47.350 --> 00:00:50.950fantasy books and other kinds of books. So how did you as a,1300:00:51.570 --> 00:00:54.590as a young man actually get into publishing, what was your route?1400:00:55.940 --> 00:01:00.070Well, I suspect it's quite a common route, really. Um, uh, university,1500:01:01.150 --> 00:01:04.470I, I studied French and philosophy. Um,1600:01:04.690 --> 00:01:08.900so I came out of university without a, you know, an obvious,1700:01:09.910 --> 00:01:14.660there was no obvious career path for that, um, degree necessarily. So I was,1800:01:14.840 --> 00:01:16.420had to think about, you know, what do I really love?1900:01:16.440 --> 00:01:20.020And what I really loved was reading and books had done since for all my life2000:01:20.020 --> 00:01:25.020really, or my life I can remember. Um, and, um,2100:01:25.240 --> 00:01:29.970and so I started working in publishing and, um, because of, uh,2200:01:30.040 --> 00:01:35.010I've been studying a language at university, it seemed natural to go into, um,2300:01:35.010 --> 00:01:39.090the area of publishing that focuses on translations, um, which is what I did.2400:01:39.630 --> 00:01:44.050Um, and after a few years I ended up at Pushkin press, uh,2500:01:44.350 --> 00:01:48.850almost that's coming up for 12 years now, 12 years ago that I, um,2600:01:50.280 --> 00:01:52.050that I came here and now I'm an editor.2700:01:52.510 --> 00:01:54.610And in that time we've really gone from strength to strength.2800:01:54.610 --> 00:01:56.170It's been a great place to work.2900:01:58.010 --> 00:02:02.750So what is the place of fantasy within the rafter things that you publish at3000:02:02.750 --> 00:02:03.583Pushkin?3100:02:04.300 --> 00:02:08.790Well, we, it's not, we don't specialize in, in publishing fantasy. Um,3200:02:08.790 --> 00:02:10.550we're not that sort of publisher, but, um,3300:02:11.030 --> 00:02:14.910I think there are elements of fantasy in all of the different strands of what we3400:02:14.910 --> 00:02:19.790publish. Uh, so what we originally, um, were founded to publish and what we are,3500:02:19.970 --> 00:02:24.070we were best known for is, um, translated classic literature from,3600:02:24.300 --> 00:02:29.070from across the world. Um, and that was what we,3700:02:29.130 --> 00:02:33.430we were publishing when we were first founded in 1997, but since then,3800:02:33.430 --> 00:02:37.270we've really broadened out. And now we, um, we have a, we've published a lot of,3900:02:37.270 --> 00:02:41.710um, contemporary literature, uh, as well as, uh,4000:02:41.710 --> 00:02:44.990we have a children's list and the crime and thrillers list as well.4100:02:45.410 --> 00:02:49.310And I actually acquire and publish across all of those lists. And I suppose4200:02:51.130 --> 00:02:54.700there's, there's fantastical elements and lots of those title and lots of those,4300:02:54.760 --> 00:02:59.280uh, imprints, but really it's the children's list, which has the most,4400:03:00.260 --> 00:03:03.320the largest element of fantasy in it. And the one that actually, I,4500:03:03.960 --> 00:03:06.920I think I enjoy acquiring for the most it's, um,4600:03:06.920 --> 00:03:11.280something that I'm starting to focus on. Yeah. We publish a lot of, uh,4700:03:11.390 --> 00:03:14.880wonderful fantasy bubble from all over the world on that list.4800:03:15.940 --> 00:03:18.960So perhaps you could give, uh, the listeners an idea of what,4900:03:19.030 --> 00:03:23.200what some of those titles might be that, um, fall into that category.5000:03:23.990 --> 00:03:25.280Well, for example, I think the most,5100:03:25.280 --> 00:03:29.880the most successful title on our children's list since we founded it has been a5200:03:29.880 --> 00:03:33.960Dutch classic called the letter for the king by an author called Tonka draft.5300:03:34.580 --> 00:03:38.240Um, and it's a wonderful, I mean, it's,5400:03:38.240 --> 00:03:41.640it's fantasy in the sense that it's set in, uh, not in our world,5500:03:42.500 --> 00:03:47.360but it's a fantasy perhaps a bit like a bit like game of Thrones,5600:03:47.360 --> 00:03:51.160purely in the sense that the fantastical magical elements quite downplayed.5700:03:51.660 --> 00:03:55.080So it's quite a realistic fantasy, which I think is quite, it's quite Dutch,5800:03:55.080 --> 00:03:55.960really. Um,5900:03:55.960 --> 00:04:00.960it's very taught fast pace adventure story about a6000:04:00.960 --> 00:04:04.600young, uh, Squire who wants to become a Knight and to do that,6100:04:04.660 --> 00:04:07.280he has to deliver a letter to the king of a far off land.6200:04:07.280 --> 00:04:09.720And there are all these other nights trying to stop him.6300:04:10.270 --> 00:04:12.440It's really just the breathless story.6400:04:12.440 --> 00:04:15.240And it's a huge classic in the Netherlands across the world.6500:04:15.300 --> 00:04:19.080And we published it with great success in the UK,6600:04:19.080 --> 00:04:22.480and it was recently adapted buy Netflix for a brilliant series as well.6700:04:23.260 --> 00:04:26.360So that's one example. Um,6800:04:28.030 --> 00:04:32.960another example would be another book from the Netherlands actually, <laugh>,6900:04:33.550 --> 00:04:36.080it's, it's interesting because when, when,7000:04:36.230 --> 00:04:37.920when I speak to people from the Netherlands,7100:04:37.920 --> 00:04:42.920they often say fantasy is something that is quite lacking from, um,7200:04:42.920 --> 00:04:47.320Dutch literature in general, it's often very realistic, but, um, I think perhaps7300:04:49.390 --> 00:04:53.040because of when a Dutch fantasy novel does emerge, it's often very special.7400:04:53.300 --> 00:04:55.080And that's the case for a book called, uh,7500:04:55.130 --> 00:04:59.080Lampe that we published a couple of years back when author called Annette sharp.7600:04:59.220 --> 00:05:03.240It ended up being the first translated book to be shortlisted for the Carnegie,7700:05:03.700 --> 00:05:06.440um, medal in the UK. Uh,7800:05:06.440 --> 00:05:11.160and that's a wonderful Gothic secret garden esque,7900:05:11.860 --> 00:05:16.680uh, fantasy novel about a young girl with mermaids and pirates.8000:05:17.420 --> 00:05:19.840And it's very rich and, um,8100:05:21.610 --> 00:05:24.380AST on level of character as well. Like,8200:05:24.380 --> 00:05:27.740like the sync that was a big influence for Annette when she was writing it.8300:05:27.930 --> 00:05:30.980Like, I really love that book and we've got her next book come out, um,8400:05:30.980 --> 00:05:35.300this awesome, which the girls, um, which is a collection of stories actually.8500:05:36.940 --> 00:05:37.640I mean,8600:05:37.640 --> 00:05:40.580the reason we got to know each other is that you very kindly were sending me8700:05:40.580 --> 00:05:45.300some of these wonderful books to review. And I remember that one very much,8800:05:45.320 --> 00:05:48.780but the one that I remember of course is my favorite ape.8900:05:49.760 --> 00:05:54.060Oh, the murderers ape. Yeah. I almost did mention that cause it's so, I mean,9000:05:54.170 --> 00:05:54.820that is,9100:05:54.820 --> 00:05:59.720I think perhaps my favorite book on that we've ever published across9200:05:59.780 --> 00:06:03.360all of our, all of our imprints. It's so amazing. It's um,9300:06:04.460 --> 00:06:07.800the author is, uh, Swedish and it's like a, um,9400:06:08.400 --> 00:06:13.400a very rich old fashioned kind of 1920 set adventure in a kind of9500:06:13.420 --> 00:06:16.480tin tin esque style. And, um,9600:06:17.420 --> 00:06:20.400the one fantastical element of it really is that the protagonist is a,9700:06:20.460 --> 00:06:23.560is a gorilla called sly Jones who, uh,9800:06:25.830 --> 00:06:29.930who, um, she can't speak, but she can understand everything that humans say.9900:06:29.930 --> 00:06:34.170And she alongside humans in the world. And she actually works as a mechanic on,10000:06:34.190 --> 00:06:37.250on board a boat, um, uh,10100:06:37.250 --> 00:06:40.290which enabled to have to sail around the world and have lots of adventures.10200:06:41.150 --> 00:06:43.840And it's really just an amazing,10300:06:45.340 --> 00:06:50.160an amazing richly detailed adventure of the type that I think we don't see10400:06:50.380 --> 00:06:52.680enough of these days. And it's beautifully illustrated as well.10500:06:52.680 --> 00:06:57.080It has about a hundred gorgeous, detailed illustrations by the author in it. Um,10600:06:57.340 --> 00:07:01.840and, um, we are publishing the paperback edition of the sequel, um,10700:07:02.520 --> 00:07:05.240Sally Jones and the false rose, this autumn, which is another,10800:07:06.390 --> 00:07:09.920just as good as the murder is ape and which Sally Jones comes to Glasgow.10900:07:09.920 --> 00:07:13.200In fact, it's UK based. Um, yeah,11000:07:13.200 --> 00:07:17.740the reason only reason I didn't mention that right away is because, uh,11100:07:18.160 --> 00:07:21.180you know, uh, the only fantastical element, if you could call that,11200:07:21.180 --> 00:07:25.060is that she's a gorilla <laugh>, which is,11300:07:26.160 --> 00:07:26.993you know.11400:07:29.530 --> 00:07:32.340Extremely good job of persuading you,11500:07:33.130 --> 00:07:36.540that it's a hi historical adventure. Yes.11600:07:36.600 --> 00:07:41.140And you have take a step and think, hang on a minute, hang on a minute. Would,11700:07:41.510 --> 00:07:43.780would a gorilla really be able to be a mechanic?11800:07:44.080 --> 00:07:49.020Is this not actually a form of animal fable in a way? And it is actually, um,11900:07:49.260 --> 00:07:52.020I put my hand up, it's my, when, when anyone says,12000:07:52.020 --> 00:07:54.660what's your favorite children's book you've read in the last decade.12100:07:54.810 --> 00:07:56.540It's that one? I, so12200:07:59.480 --> 00:08:00.580the other, other thing I,12300:08:01.420 --> 00:08:05.580I like about both that and the Lampe story and others is, um, illustration,12400:08:05.580 --> 00:08:07.780because it struck me that yeah. Where,12500:08:07.780 --> 00:08:11.260whereas in the UK you might get chapter vignettes or whatever.12600:08:11.330 --> 00:08:13.020It's quite rare for a publisher,12700:08:13.080 --> 00:08:16.940unless you're doing a illustrated book of the sort of children, you know,12800:08:16.940 --> 00:08:21.500younger end of the market. People don't spend on the illustrations where,12900:08:21.810 --> 00:08:25.060whereas the European editions that you are translating seem to have the most13000:08:25.060 --> 00:08:29.300wonderful, um, place for illustrations. Am I right in thinking that,13100:08:29.400 --> 00:08:30.860is that something that you've noticed?13200:08:32.250 --> 00:08:37.010Uh, yes. I mean, um, well, in the case of those two books, the,13300:08:37.030 --> 00:08:41.610the authors did the illustrations as well. So, um, an,13400:08:41.650 --> 00:08:46.290a sharp, for example, and I think both a sharp author of Lampe and the,13500:08:46.290 --> 00:08:48.370a regales author of the murderers ape were,13600:08:49.000 --> 00:08:52.410they started out as illustrators before they, um, you know,13700:08:52.410 --> 00:08:57.200started writing these novels for children. So, um, yeah, so the book, the story,13800:08:57.340 --> 00:09:02.040the illustrations came with the came with the novels. Um,13900:09:02.180 --> 00:09:06.760it was already a package. Um, but it's true. There's,14000:09:06.760 --> 00:09:09.330I think there's, um, I think in the UK,14100:09:09.950 --> 00:09:13.450we have this culture whereby we have picture books for younger children,14200:09:13.590 --> 00:09:17.370and then there's a cutoff and you have novels for, you know, around about eight,14300:09:18.060 --> 00:09:19.930seven or eight, where you start having novels with,14400:09:20.040 --> 00:09:24.250with not so many pictures in them. Whereas in, on the continent in Europe,14500:09:24.530 --> 00:09:29.240I see more of a continuum with, um, perhaps they're just,14600:09:30.280 --> 00:09:31.810just text getting longer and longer,14700:09:31.870 --> 00:09:34.330and the pitch taking slightly more of a back,14800:09:35.110 --> 00:09:38.140but there's still that mix like all the way through, um,14900:09:38.140 --> 00:09:41.130something that we could learn from definitely.15000:09:42.090 --> 00:09:43.570I mean, it's not to say there isn't a place,15100:09:43.570 --> 00:09:47.210cause obviously there's a whole new range of graphic novels where, you know,15200:09:47.210 --> 00:09:50.210the balance is obviously towards pictures and what have you.15300:09:50.210 --> 00:09:54.650But it does seem as though for sort of common or garden novelists like me,15400:09:54.650 --> 00:09:59.170that I'd love to have more opportunity to work with illustrators in that middle15500:09:59.740 --> 00:10:04.290group, the middle grade book, cuz when you think of the fantasy greats, like,15600:10:04.430 --> 00:10:08.730um, oh, I dunno line in the witch in the wardrobe, but it's in my head,15700:10:08.930 --> 00:10:13.010I can't separate it from the Pauline bans line drawings.15800:10:13.310 --> 00:10:17.770And of course talking, talking himself was his own best illustrator. Yeah.15900:10:18.310 --> 00:10:22.330Um, and we all know if I said, oh yes, smell on the treasure heat.16000:10:22.640 --> 00:10:25.930Everybody knows what I'm talking about. So I,16100:10:26.010 --> 00:10:30.570I think that the example coming in from Europe is one that I'd love to see more16200:10:30.850 --> 00:10:33.610frequently used, really give, give illustrators some jobs.16300:10:33.870 --> 00:10:37.890That's what I'm saying. <laugh> um, so yeah.16400:10:38.520 --> 00:10:41.810What do you think are the main shifts in publishing? Uh,16500:10:41.890 --> 00:10:44.010particularly as regards fantasy.16600:10:44.530 --> 00:10:47.250I mean I'm talking across the board cause we don't just do children's fantasy16700:10:47.460 --> 00:10:52.450we're we are looking through the whole range of ages on books. Yeah.16800:10:52.860 --> 00:10:55.290Where is it going at the moment in 2022?16900:10:58.620 --> 00:11:03.310Well, that's a big question and I, you know,17000:11:03.410 --> 00:11:08.100the, as an editor, I'm not a specialist in, in fantasy per se,17100:11:08.100 --> 00:11:10.420so it's not, it's not my whole focus,17200:11:10.680 --> 00:11:14.980but it seems to me like one of the most interesting developments in17300:11:15.970 --> 00:11:18.860fantasy literature, it's, it's kind of linked to the,17400:11:19.080 --> 00:11:23.100one of the biggest trends over the past few years in, um, publishing,17500:11:23.100 --> 00:11:25.740which is just bringing in a more diverse range of voices.17600:11:26.440 --> 00:11:30.580And I think that the effect that has in fantasy is that you we're seeing all17700:11:30.580 --> 00:11:31.413these, um,17800:11:31.790 --> 00:11:36.580Fanta worlds with just different kind of cultural17900:11:36.580 --> 00:11:39.860flavors to them. That is so exciting. And, um,18000:11:41.670 --> 00:11:43.490and so interesting. I I think, um,18100:11:44.960 --> 00:11:49.890perhaps because of the great success of Tolkin and other author like18200:11:49.890 --> 00:11:54.440that almost got to thinking that fantasy means this could be in18300:11:54.640 --> 00:11:59.000medieval, um, magical world. Whereas in fact,18400:11:59.000 --> 00:12:02.840what we're getting to experience now is it was all these fantasies,18500:12:02.860 --> 00:12:06.600worlds influenced by, um, different cultures and different, um,18600:12:06.710 --> 00:12:09.920mythologies and beliefs and, and histories. Um,18700:12:09.920 --> 00:12:12.920which I think is generally is really exciting. Um,18800:12:14.180 --> 00:12:18.320we published a, um, these fantasy novel on our list. Um,18900:12:18.400 --> 00:12:23.100a few years back it was very successful called the beast player by the hook.19000:12:24.160 --> 00:12:25.460And I think what people, um,19100:12:26.760 --> 00:12:29.460really responded to and that is that the, um,19200:12:30.600 --> 00:12:35.100the fantasy world was just so richly imagined detailed, not in the way that, um,19300:12:35.330 --> 00:12:39.580that, you know, Western fancy readers are necessarily used to, um,19400:12:40.000 --> 00:12:40.660was really fascinating.19500:12:40.660 --> 00:12:44.300I can remember, I can remember the experience of watching spirited away,19600:12:45.000 --> 00:12:48.940you know, that wonderful, um, Japanese film from,19700:12:49.020 --> 00:12:53.100I think it's now from the early two thousands. So it's quite old now. Anyway,19800:12:53.730 --> 00:12:58.420late 1990s, I remember watching this thinking, I have not seen this before.19900:12:59.110 --> 00:13:03.460Right. There was nothing here that I've seen before the imagery,20000:13:04.520 --> 00:13:09.260the, this pacing, everything was just delightfully different and appealing.20100:13:09.260 --> 00:13:11.140Yeah. So I agree with you.20200:13:11.140 --> 00:13:15.900This is very good to have the formulas shaken up on the formulas exploded20300:13:16.010 --> 00:13:19.900because new things are coming in and when we're teaching, um,20400:13:20.440 --> 00:13:21.740people on our fantasy course,20500:13:21.760 --> 00:13:24.860one of the very first things we are looking at is what's in your,20600:13:25.520 --> 00:13:29.740what's in your own background and the place you live the O your own stories20700:13:30.650 --> 00:13:32.820that haven't been used before.20800:13:32.880 --> 00:13:35.900And it's really exciting if someone comes up with, oh, well, you know,20900:13:36.040 --> 00:13:41.020I'm from a native American background or I'm from a Australia or whatever,21000:13:41.080 --> 00:13:44.940you get new ideas coming through, which is yeah. You know,21100:13:44.940 --> 00:13:48.540that's what we're about. We're about new creativity. Yeah. So, but you,21200:13:48.650 --> 00:13:53.140what about the different flavors of fantasy from, um,21300:13:53.140 --> 00:13:56.020different countries that you see? Cuz I mean, I can say in crime,21400:13:56.020 --> 00:14:00.620like we all know about Scandar and cozy crime from the UK and so on.21500:14:00.640 --> 00:14:03.980So you can sort of say there are different flavors in the sort crime and21600:14:03.980 --> 00:14:07.820detective world. Um, what would you, you know,21700:14:07.820 --> 00:14:11.220you've mentioned Holland or the Netherlands a couple of times,21800:14:11.680 --> 00:14:15.420do you feel there are sort of different flavors you are getting from different21900:14:15.420 --> 00:14:19.300parts of the world as they come across your desk in translation?22000:14:21.080 --> 00:14:24.220Yes. Well, I certainly, it certainly seems that, um,22100:14:25.570 --> 00:14:29.300some countries have got very rich traditions. Um,22200:14:30.050 --> 00:14:33.260well I enjoy, you know, delving into, uh, I mean,22300:14:33.260 --> 00:14:35.780because I did French at university, I suppose that, uh,22400:14:36.530 --> 00:14:39.460it's so natural that I end up reading quite a lot of French, uh,22500:14:39.460 --> 00:14:44.220fantasy submissions and the, the, the real,22600:14:44.240 --> 00:14:48.940the breadth of the imagination is really impressive. It's very,22700:14:49.280 --> 00:14:51.720um, very creative.22800:14:56.970 --> 00:15:00.080Thank you for listening to part one of this week's podcast.22900:15:00.950 --> 00:15:03.680Come back next week to hear part two.23000:15:04.930 --> 00:15:06.800Thank you for listening to myth makers.23100:15:09.380 --> 00:15:13.960Thanks for listening to mythmakers podcast brought to you by the23200:15:14.100 --> 00:15:18.840Oxford center for fantasy visit Oxford center for fantasy.org23300:15:19.020 --> 00:15:20.120to join in the fun.23400:15:20.750 --> 00:15:25.280Find out about our online courses in person stays in Oxford plus23500:15:25.490 --> 00:15:27.640visit our shop for great gifts.23600:15:28.310 --> 00:15:32.880Tell a friend and subscribe wherever you find your favorite podcasts23700:15:33.150 --> 00:15:33.760worldwide.