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Hello, and welcome to myth makers.
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Myth makers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy creatives
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brought to you by the Oxford center for fantasy. My name is Julia Golding.
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I'm an author,
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but I also run the center and today I'm joined by someone from the publishing
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world. Uh,
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so please meet Daniel Seton who works for a very interesting publisher
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in the UK called the Pushkin press. So hello to Daniel.
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Hello. Thanks very much for having me on. It's very exciting.
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So, uh, many people who are, um, you know,
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keen on fantasy could imagine themselves working in the world of publishing
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fantasy books and other kinds of books. So how did you as a,
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as a young man actually get into publishing, what was your route?
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Well, I suspect it's quite a common route, really. Um, uh, university,
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I, I studied French and philosophy. Um,
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so I came out of university without a, you know, an obvious,
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there was no obvious career path for that, um, degree necessarily. So I was,
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had to think about, you know, what do I really love?
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And what I really loved was reading and books had done since for all my life
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really, or my life I can remember. Um, and, um,
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and so I started working in publishing and, um, because of, uh,
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I've been studying a language at university, it seemed natural to go into, um,
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the area of publishing that focuses on translations, um, which is what I did.
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Um, and after a few years I ended up at Pushkin press, uh,
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almost that's coming up for 12 years now, 12 years ago that I, um,
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that I came here and now I'm an editor.
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And in that time we've really gone from strength to strength.
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It's been a great place to work.
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So what is the place of fantasy within the rafter things that you publish at
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Pushkin?
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Well, we, it's not, we don't specialize in, in publishing fantasy. Um,
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we're not that sort of publisher, but, um,
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I think there are elements of fantasy in all of the different strands of what we
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publish. Uh, so what we originally, um, were founded to publish and what we are,
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we were best known for is, um, translated classic literature from,
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from across the world. Um, and that was what we,
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we were publishing when we were first founded in 1997, but since then,
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we've really broadened out. And now we, um, we have a, we've published a lot of,
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um, contemporary literature, uh, as well as, uh,
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we have a children's list and the crime and thrillers list as well.
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And I actually acquire and publish across all of those lists. And I suppose
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there's, there's fantastical elements and lots of those title and lots of those,
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uh, imprints, but really it's the children's list, which has the most,
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the largest element of fantasy in it. And the one that actually, I,
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I think I enjoy acquiring for the most it's, um,
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something that I'm starting to focus on. Yeah. We publish a lot of, uh,
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wonderful fantasy bubble from all over the world on that list.
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So perhaps you could give, uh, the listeners an idea of what,
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what some of those titles might be that, um, fall into that category.
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Well, for example, I think the most,
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the most successful title on our children's list since we founded it has been a
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Dutch classic called the letter for the king by an author called Tonka draft.
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Um, and it's a wonderful, I mean, it's,
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it's fantasy in the sense that it's set in, uh, not in our world,
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but it's a fantasy perhaps a bit like a bit like game of Thrones,
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purely in the sense that the fantastical magical elements quite downplayed.
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So it's quite a realistic fantasy, which I think is quite, it's quite Dutch,
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really. Um,
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it's very taught fast pace adventure story about a
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young, uh, Squire who wants to become a Knight and to do that,
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he has to deliver a letter to the king of a far off land.
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And there are all these other nights trying to stop him.
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It's really just the breathless story.
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And it's a huge classic in the Netherlands across the world.
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And we published it with great success in the UK,
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and it was recently adapted buy Netflix for a brilliant series as well.
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So that's one example. Um,
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another example would be another book from the Netherlands actually, <laugh>,
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it's, it's interesting because when, when,
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when I speak to people from the Netherlands,
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they often say fantasy is something that is quite lacking from, um,
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Dutch literature in general, it's often very realistic, but, um, I think perhaps
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because of when a Dutch fantasy novel does emerge, it's often very special.
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And that's the case for a book called, uh,
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Lampe that we published a couple of years back when author called Annette sharp.
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It ended up being the first translated book to be shortlisted for the Carnegie,
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um, medal in the UK. Uh,
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and that's a wonderful Gothic secret garden esque,
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uh, fantasy novel about a young girl with mermaids and pirates.
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And it's very rich and, um,
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AST on level of character as well. Like,
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like the sync that was a big influence for Annette when she was writing it.
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Like, I really love that book and we've got her next book come out, um,
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this awesome, which the girls, um, which is a collection of stories actually.
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I mean,
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the reason we got to know each other is that you very kindly were sending me
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some of these wonderful books to review. And I remember that one very much,
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but the one that I remember of course is my favorite ape.
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Oh, the murderers ape. Yeah. I almost did mention that cause it's so, I mean,
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that is,
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I think perhaps my favorite book on that we've ever published across
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all of our, all of our imprints. It's so amazing. It's um,
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the author is, uh, Swedish and it's like a, um,
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a very rich old fashioned kind of 1920 set adventure in a kind of
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tin tin esque style. And, um,
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the one fantastical element of it really is that the protagonist is a,
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is a gorilla called sly Jones who, uh,
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who, um, she can't speak, but she can understand everything that humans say.
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And she alongside humans in the world. And she actually works as a mechanic on,
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on board a boat, um, uh,
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which enabled to have to sail around the world and have lots of adventures.
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And it's really just an amazing,
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an amazing richly detailed adventure of the type that I think we don't see
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enough of these days. And it's beautifully illustrated as well.
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It has about a hundred gorgeous, detailed illustrations by the author in it. Um,
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and, um, we are publishing the paperback edition of the sequel, um,
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Sally Jones and the false rose, this autumn, which is another,
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just as good as the murder is ape and which Sally Jones comes to Glasgow.
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In fact, it's UK based. Um, yeah,
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the reason only reason I didn't mention that right away is because, uh,
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you know, uh, the only fantastical element, if you could call that,
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is that she's a gorilla <laugh>, which is,
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you know.
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Extremely good job of persuading you,
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that it's a hi historical adventure. Yes.
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And you have take a step and think, hang on a minute, hang on a minute. Would,
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would a gorilla really be able to be a mechanic?
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Is this not actually a form of animal fable in a way? And it is actually, um,
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I put my hand up, it's my, when, when anyone says,
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what's your favorite children's book you've read in the last decade.
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It's that one? I, so
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the other, other thing I,
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I like about both that and the Lampe story and others is, um, illustration,
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because it struck me that yeah. Where,
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whereas in the UK you might get chapter vignettes or whatever.
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It's quite rare for a publisher,
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unless you're doing a illustrated book of the sort of children, you know,
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younger end of the market. People don't spend on the illustrations where,
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whereas the European editions that you are translating seem to have the most
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wonderful, um, place for illustrations. Am I right in thinking that,
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is that something that you've noticed?
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Uh, yes. I mean, um, well, in the case of those two books, the,
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the authors did the illustrations as well. So, um, an,
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a sharp, for example, and I think both a sharp author of Lampe and the,
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a regales author of the murderers ape were,
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they started out as illustrators before they, um, you know,
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started writing these novels for children. So, um, yeah, so the book, the story,
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the illustrations came with the came with the novels. Um,
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it was already a package. Um, but it's true. There's,
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I think there's, um, I think in the UK,
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we have this culture whereby we have picture books for younger children,
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and then there's a cutoff and you have novels for, you know, around about eight,
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seven or eight, where you start having novels with,
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with not so many pictures in them. Whereas in, on the continent in Europe,
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I see more of a continuum with, um, perhaps they're just,
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just text getting longer and longer,
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and the pitch taking slightly more of a back,
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but there's still that mix like all the way through, um,
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something that we could learn from definitely.
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I mean, it's not to say there isn't a place,
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cause obviously there's a whole new range of graphic novels where, you know,
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the balance is obviously towards pictures and what have you.
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But it does seem as though for sort of common or garden novelists like me,
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that I'd love to have more opportunity to work with illustrators in that middle
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group, the middle grade book, cuz when you think of the fantasy greats, like,
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um, oh, I dunno line in the witch in the wardrobe, but it's in my head,
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I can't separate it from the Pauline bans line drawings.
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And of course talking, talking himself was his own best illustrator. Yeah.
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Um, and we all know if I said, oh yes, smell on the treasure heat.
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Everybody knows what I'm talking about. So I,
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I think that the example coming in from Europe is one that I'd love to see more
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frequently used, really give, give illustrators some jobs.
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That's what I'm saying. <laugh> um, so yeah.
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What do you think are the main shifts in publishing? Uh,
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particularly as regards fantasy.
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I mean I'm talking across the board cause we don't just do children's fantasy
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we're we are looking through the whole range of ages on books. Yeah.
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Where is it going at the moment in 2022?
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Well, that's a big question and I, you know,
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the, as an editor, I'm not a specialist in, in fantasy per se,
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so it's not, it's not my whole focus,
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but it seems to me like one of the most interesting developments in
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fantasy literature, it's, it's kind of linked to the,
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one of the biggest trends over the past few years in, um, publishing,
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which is just bringing in a more diverse range of voices.
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And I think that the effect that has in fantasy is that you we're seeing all
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these, um,
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Fanta worlds with just different kind of cultural
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flavors to them. That is so exciting. And, um,
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and so interesting. I I think, um,
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perhaps because of the great success of Tolkin and other author like
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that almost got to thinking that fantasy means this could be in
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medieval, um, magical world. Whereas in fact,
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what we're getting to experience now is it was all these fantasies,
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worlds influenced by, um, different cultures and different, um,
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mythologies and beliefs and, and histories. Um,
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which I think is generally is really exciting. Um,
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we published a, um, these fantasy novel on our list. Um,
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a few years back it was very successful called the beast player by the hook.
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And I think what people, um,
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really responded to and that is that the, um,
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the fantasy world was just so richly imagined detailed, not in the way that, um,
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that, you know, Western fancy readers are necessarily used to, um,
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was really fascinating.
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I can remember, I can remember the experience of watching spirited away,
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you know, that wonderful, um, Japanese film from,
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I think it's now from the early two thousands. So it's quite old now. Anyway,
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late 1990s, I remember watching this thinking, I have not seen this before.
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Right. There was nothing here that I've seen before the imagery,
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the, this pacing, everything was just delightfully different and appealing.
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Yeah. So I agree with you.
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This is very good to have the formulas shaken up on the formulas exploded
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because new things are coming in and when we're teaching, um,
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people on our fantasy course,
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one of the very first things we are looking at is what's in your,
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what's in your own background and the place you live the O your own stories
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that haven't been used before.
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And it's really exciting if someone comes up with, oh, well, you know,
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I'm from a native American background or I'm from a Australia or whatever,
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you get new ideas coming through, which is yeah. You know,
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that's what we're about. We're about new creativity. Yeah. So, but you,
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what about the different flavors of fantasy from, um,
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different countries that you see? Cuz I mean, I can say in crime,
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like we all know about Scandar and cozy crime from the UK and so on.
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So you can sort of say there are different flavors in the sort crime and
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detective world. Um, what would you, you know,
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you've mentioned Holland or the Netherlands a couple of times,
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do you feel there are sort of different flavors you are getting from different
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parts of the world as they come across your desk in translation?
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Yes. Well, I certainly, it certainly seems that, um,
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some countries have got very rich traditions. Um,
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well I enjoy, you know, delving into, uh, I mean,
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because I did French at university, I suppose that, uh,
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it's so natural that I end up reading quite a lot of French, uh,
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fantasy submissions and the, the, the real,
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the breadth of the imagination is really impressive. It's very,
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um, very creative.
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Thank you for listening to part one of this week's podcast.
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Come back next week to hear part two.
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Thank you for listening to myth makers.
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Thanks for listening to mythmakers podcast brought to you by the
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Oxford center for fantasy visit Oxford center for fantasy.org
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to join in the fun.
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Find out about our online courses in person stays in Oxford plus
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visit our shop for great gifts.
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