Transcript
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Hello, and welcome to myth makers.2 00:00:09.220 --> 00:00:13.710 Myth makers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy creatives 3 00:00:13.780 --> 00:00:18.150 brought to you by the Oxford center for fantasy. My name is Julia Golding. 4 00:00:18.410 --> 00:00:19.070 I'm an author, 5 00:00:19.070 --> 00:00:24.070 but I also run the center and today I'm joined by someone from the publishing 6 00:00:24.070 --> 00:00:25.350 world. Uh, 7 00:00:25.370 --> 00:00:30.350 so please meet Daniel Seton who works for a very interesting publisher 8 00:00:30.410 --> 00:00:35.030 in the UK called the Pushkin press. So hello to Daniel. 9 00:00:36.040 --> 00:00:39.230
Hello. Thanks very much for having me on. It's very exciting.10 00:00:39.570 --> 00:00:42.750
So, uh, many people who are, um, you know,11 00:00:42.900 --> 00:00:47.350 keen on fantasy could imagine themselves working in the world of publishing 12 00:00:47.350 --> 00:00:50.950 fantasy books and other kinds of books. So how did you as a, 13 00:00:51.570 --> 00:00:54.590 as a young man actually get into publishing, what was your route? 14 00:00:55.940 --> 00:01:00.070
Well, I suspect it's quite a common route, really. Um, uh, university,15 00:01:01.150 --> 00:01:04.470 I, I studied French and philosophy. Um, 16 00:01:04.690 --> 00:01:08.900 so I came out of university without a, you know, an obvious, 17 00:01:09.910 --> 00:01:14.660 there was no obvious career path for that, um, degree necessarily. So I was, 18 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:16.420 had to think about, you know, what do I really love? 19 00:01:16.440 --> 00:01:20.020 And what I really loved was reading and books had done since for all my life 20 00:01:20.020 --> 00:01:25.020 really, or my life I can remember. Um, and, um, 21 00:01:25.240 --> 00:01:29.970 and so I started working in publishing and, um, because of, uh, 22 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:35.010 I've been studying a language at university, it seemed natural to go into, um, 23 00:01:35.010 --> 00:01:39.090 the area of publishing that focuses on translations, um, which is what I did. 24 00:01:39.630 --> 00:01:44.050 Um, and after a few years I ended up at Pushkin press, uh, 25 00:01:44.350 --> 00:01:48.850 almost that's coming up for 12 years now, 12 years ago that I, um, 26 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:52.050 that I came here and now I'm an editor. 27 00:01:52.510 --> 00:01:54.610 And in that time we've really gone from strength to strength. 28 00:01:54.610 --> 00:01:56.170 It's been a great place to work. 29 00:01:58.010 --> 00:02:02.750
So what is the place of fantasy within the rafter things that you publish at30 00:02:02.750 --> 00:02:03.583 Pushkin? 31 00:02:04.300 --> 00:02:08.790
Well, we, it's not, we don't specialize in, in publishing fantasy. Um,32 00:02:08.790 --> 00:02:10.550 we're not that sort of publisher, but, um, 33 00:02:11.030 --> 00:02:14.910 I think there are elements of fantasy in all of the different strands of what we 34 00:02:14.910 --> 00:02:19.790 publish. Uh, so what we originally, um, were founded to publish and what we are, 35 00:02:19.970 --> 00:02:24.070 we were best known for is, um, translated classic literature from, 36 00:02:24.300 --> 00:02:29.070 from across the world. Um, and that was what we, 37 00:02:29.130 --> 00:02:33.430 we were publishing when we were first founded in 1997, but since then, 38 00:02:33.430 --> 00:02:37.270 we've really broadened out. And now we, um, we have a, we've published a lot of, 39 00:02:37.270 --> 00:02:41.710 um, contemporary literature, uh, as well as, uh, 40 00:02:41.710 --> 00:02:44.990 we have a children's list and the crime and thrillers list as well. 41 00:02:45.410 --> 00:02:49.310 And I actually acquire and publish across all of those lists. And I suppose 42 00:02:51.130 --> 00:02:54.700 there's, there's fantastical elements and lots of those title and lots of those, 43 00:02:54.760 --> 00:02:59.280 uh, imprints, but really it's the children's list, which has the most, 44 00:03:00.260 --> 00:03:03.320 the largest element of fantasy in it. And the one that actually, I, 45 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:06.920 I think I enjoy acquiring for the most it's, um, 46 00:03:06.920 --> 00:03:11.280 something that I'm starting to focus on. Yeah. We publish a lot of, uh, 47 00:03:11.390 --> 00:03:14.880 wonderful fantasy bubble from all over the world on that list. 48 00:03:15.940 --> 00:03:18.960
So perhaps you could give, uh, the listeners an idea of what,49 00:03:19.030 --> 00:03:23.200 what some of those titles might be that, um, fall into that category. 50 00:03:23.990 --> 00:03:25.280
Well, for example, I think the most,51 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:29.880 the most successful title on our children's list since we founded it has been a 52 00:03:29.880 --> 00:03:33.960 Dutch classic called the letter for the king by an author called Tonka draft. 53 00:03:34.580 --> 00:03:38.240 Um, and it's a wonderful, I mean, it's, 54 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:41.640 it's fantasy in the sense that it's set in, uh, not in our world, 55 00:03:42.500 --> 00:03:47.360 but it's a fantasy perhaps a bit like a bit like game of Thrones, 56 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:51.160 purely in the sense that the fantastical magical elements quite downplayed. 57 00:03:51.660 --> 00:03:55.080 So it's quite a realistic fantasy, which I think is quite, it's quite Dutch, 58 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:55.960 really. Um, 59 00:03:55.960 --> 00:04:00.960 it's very taught fast pace adventure story about a 60 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:04.600 young, uh, Squire who wants to become a Knight and to do that, 61 00:04:04.660 --> 00:04:07.280 he has to deliver a letter to the king of a far off land. 62 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:09.720 And there are all these other nights trying to stop him. 63 00:04:10.270 --> 00:04:12.440 It's really just the breathless story. 64 00:04:12.440 --> 00:04:15.240 And it's a huge classic in the Netherlands across the world. 65 00:04:15.300 --> 00:04:19.080 And we published it with great success in the UK, 66 00:04:19.080 --> 00:04:22.480 and it was recently adapted buy Netflix for a brilliant series as well. 67 00:04:23.260 --> 00:04:26.360 So that's one example. Um, 68 00:04:28.030 --> 00:04:32.960 another example would be another book from the Netherlands actually, <laugh>, 69 00:04:33.550 --> 00:04:36.080 it's, it's interesting because when, when, 70 00:04:36.230 --> 00:04:37.920 when I speak to people from the Netherlands, 71 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:42.920 they often say fantasy is something that is quite lacking from, um, 72 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:47.320 Dutch literature in general, it's often very realistic, but, um, I think perhaps 73 00:04:49.390 --> 00:04:53.040 because of when a Dutch fantasy novel does emerge, it's often very special. 74 00:04:53.300 --> 00:04:55.080 And that's the case for a book called, uh, 75 00:04:55.130 --> 00:04:59.080 Lampe that we published a couple of years back when author called Annette sharp. 76 00:04:59.220 --> 00:05:03.240 It ended up being the first translated book to be shortlisted for the Carnegie, 77 00:05:03.700 --> 00:05:06.440 um, medal in the UK. Uh, 78 00:05:06.440 --> 00:05:11.160 and that's a wonderful Gothic secret garden esque, 79 00:05:11.860 --> 00:05:16.680 uh, fantasy novel about a young girl with mermaids and pirates. 80 00:05:17.420 --> 00:05:19.840 And it's very rich and, um, 81 00:05:21.610 --> 00:05:24.380 AST on level of character as well. Like, 82 00:05:24.380 --> 00:05:27.740 like the sync that was a big influence for Annette when she was writing it. 83 00:05:27.930 --> 00:05:30.980 Like, I really love that book and we've got her next book come out, um, 84 00:05:30.980 --> 00:05:35.300 this awesome, which the girls, um, which is a collection of stories actually. 85 00:05:36.940 --> 00:05:37.640
I mean,86 00:05:37.640 --> 00:05:40.580 the reason we got to know each other is that you very kindly were sending me 87 00:05:40.580 --> 00:05:45.300 some of these wonderful books to review. And I remember that one very much, 88 00:05:45.320 --> 00:05:48.780 but the one that I remember of course is my favorite ape. 89 00:05:49.760 --> 00:05:54.060
Oh, the murderers ape. Yeah. I almost did mention that cause it's so, I mean,90 00:05:54.170 --> 00:05:54.820 that is, 91 00:05:54.820 --> 00:05:59.720 I think perhaps my favorite book on that we've ever published across 92 00:05:59.780 --> 00:06:03.360 all of our, all of our imprints. It's so amazing. It's um, 93 00:06:04.460 --> 00:06:07.800 the author is, uh, Swedish and it's like a, um, 94 00:06:08.400 --> 00:06:13.400 a very rich old fashioned kind of 1920 set adventure in a kind of 95 00:06:13.420 --> 00:06:16.480 tin tin esque style. And, um, 96 00:06:17.420 --> 00:06:20.400 the one fantastical element of it really is that the protagonist is a, 97 00:06:20.460 --> 00:06:23.560 is a gorilla called sly Jones who, uh, 98 00:06:25.830 --> 00:06:29.930 who, um, she can't speak, but she can understand everything that humans say. 99 00:06:29.930 --> 00:06:34.170 And she alongside humans in the world. And she actually works as a mechanic on, 100 00:06:34.190 --> 00:06:37.250 on board a boat, um, uh, 101 00:06:37.250 --> 00:06:40.290 which enabled to have to sail around the world and have lots of adventures. 102 00:06:41.150 --> 00:06:43.840 And it's really just an amazing, 103 00:06:45.340 --> 00:06:50.160 an amazing richly detailed adventure of the type that I think we don't see 104 00:06:50.380 --> 00:06:52.680 enough of these days. And it's beautifully illustrated as well. 105 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:57.080 It has about a hundred gorgeous, detailed illustrations by the author in it. Um, 106 00:06:57.340 --> 00:07:01.840 and, um, we are publishing the paperback edition of the sequel, um, 107 00:07:02.520 --> 00:07:05.240 Sally Jones and the false rose, this autumn, which is another, 108 00:07:06.390 --> 00:07:09.920 just as good as the murder is ape and which Sally Jones comes to Glasgow. 109 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:13.200 In fact, it's UK based. Um, yeah, 110 00:07:13.200 --> 00:07:17.740 the reason only reason I didn't mention that right away is because, uh, 111 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:21.180 you know, uh, the only fantastical element, if you could call that, 112 00:07:21.180 --> 00:07:25.060 is that she's a gorilla <laugh>, which is, 113 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:26.993 you know. 114 00:07:29.530 --> 00:07:32.340
Extremely good job of persuading you,115 00:07:33.130 --> 00:07:36.540 that it's a hi historical adventure. Yes. 116 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:41.140 And you have take a step and think, hang on a minute, hang on a minute. Would, 117 00:07:41.510 --> 00:07:43.780 would a gorilla really be able to be a mechanic? 118 00:07:44.080 --> 00:07:49.020 Is this not actually a form of animal fable in a way? And it is actually, um, 119 00:07:49.260 --> 00:07:52.020 I put my hand up, it's my, when, when anyone says, 120 00:07:52.020 --> 00:07:54.660 what's your favorite children's book you've read in the last decade. 121 00:07:54.810 --> 00:07:56.540 It's that one? I, so 122 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:00.580 the other, other thing I, 123 00:08:01.420 --> 00:08:05.580 I like about both that and the Lampe story and others is, um, illustration, 124 00:08:05.580 --> 00:08:07.780 because it struck me that yeah. Where, 125 00:08:07.780 --> 00:08:11.260 whereas in the UK you might get chapter vignettes or whatever. 126 00:08:11.330 --> 00:08:13.020 It's quite rare for a publisher, 127 00:08:13.080 --> 00:08:16.940 unless you're doing a illustrated book of the sort of children, you know, 128 00:08:16.940 --> 00:08:21.500 younger end of the market. People don't spend on the illustrations where, 129 00:08:21.810 --> 00:08:25.060 whereas the European editions that you are translating seem to have the most 130 00:08:25.060 --> 00:08:29.300 wonderful, um, place for illustrations. Am I right in thinking that, 131 00:08:29.400 --> 00:08:30.860 is that something that you've noticed? 132 00:08:32.250 --> 00:08:37.010
Uh, yes. I mean, um, well, in the case of those two books, the,133 00:08:37.030 --> 00:08:41.610 the authors did the illustrations as well. So, um, an, 134 00:08:41.650 --> 00:08:46.290 a sharp, for example, and I think both a sharp author of Lampe and the, 135 00:08:46.290 --> 00:08:48.370 a regales author of the murderers ape were, 136 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:52.410 they started out as illustrators before they, um, you know, 137 00:08:52.410 --> 00:08:57.200 started writing these novels for children. So, um, yeah, so the book, the story, 138 00:08:57.340 --> 00:09:02.040 the illustrations came with the came with the novels. Um, 139 00:09:02.180 --> 00:09:06.760 it was already a package. Um, but it's true. There's, 140 00:09:06.760 --> 00:09:09.330 I think there's, um, I think in the UK, 141 00:09:09.950 --> 00:09:13.450 we have this culture whereby we have picture books for younger children, 142 00:09:13.590 --> 00:09:17.370 and then there's a cutoff and you have novels for, you know, around about eight, 143 00:09:18.060 --> 00:09:19.930 seven or eight, where you start having novels with, 144 00:09:20.040 --> 00:09:24.250 with not so many pictures in them. Whereas in, on the continent in Europe, 145 00:09:24.530 --> 00:09:29.240 I see more of a continuum with, um, perhaps they're just, 146 00:09:30.280 --> 00:09:31.810 just text getting longer and longer, 147 00:09:31.870 --> 00:09:34.330 and the pitch taking slightly more of a back, 148 00:09:35.110 --> 00:09:38.140 but there's still that mix like all the way through, um, 149 00:09:38.140 --> 00:09:41.130 something that we could learn from definitely. 150 00:09:42.090 --> 00:09:43.570
I mean, it's not to say there isn't a place,151 00:09:43.570 --> 00:09:47.210 cause obviously there's a whole new range of graphic novels where, you know, 152 00:09:47.210 --> 00:09:50.210 the balance is obviously towards pictures and what have you. 153 00:09:50.210 --> 00:09:54.650 But it does seem as though for sort of common or garden novelists like me, 154 00:09:54.650 --> 00:09:59.170 that I'd love to have more opportunity to work with illustrators in that middle 155 00:09:59.740 --> 00:10:04.290 group, the middle grade book, cuz when you think of the fantasy greats, like, 156 00:10:04.430 --> 00:10:08.730 um, oh, I dunno line in the witch in the wardrobe, but it's in my head, 157 00:10:08.930 --> 00:10:13.010 I can't separate it from the Pauline bans line drawings. 158 00:10:13.310 --> 00:10:17.770 And of course talking, talking himself was his own best illustrator. Yeah. 159 00:10:18.310 --> 00:10:22.330 Um, and we all know if I said, oh yes, smell on the treasure heat. 160 00:10:22.640 --> 00:10:25.930 Everybody knows what I'm talking about. So I, 161 00:10:26.010 --> 00:10:30.570 I think that the example coming in from Europe is one that I'd love to see more 162 00:10:30.850 --> 00:10:33.610 frequently used, really give, give illustrators some jobs. 163 00:10:33.870 --> 00:10:37.890 That's what I'm saying. <laugh> um, so yeah. 164 00:10:38.520 --> 00:10:41.810 What do you think are the main shifts in publishing? Uh, 165 00:10:41.890 --> 00:10:44.010 particularly as regards fantasy. 166 00:10:44.530 --> 00:10:47.250 I mean I'm talking across the board cause we don't just do children's fantasy 167 00:10:47.460 --> 00:10:52.450 we're we are looking through the whole range of ages on books. Yeah. 168 00:10:52.860 --> 00:10:55.290 Where is it going at the moment in 2022? 169 00:10:58.620 --> 00:11:03.310
Well, that's a big question and I, you know,170 00:11:03.410 --> 00:11:08.100 the, as an editor, I'm not a specialist in, in fantasy per se, 171 00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:10.420 so it's not, it's not my whole focus, 172 00:11:10.680 --> 00:11:14.980 but it seems to me like one of the most interesting developments in 173 00:11:15.970 --> 00:11:18.860 fantasy literature, it's, it's kind of linked to the, 174 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:23.100 one of the biggest trends over the past few years in, um, publishing, 175 00:11:23.100 --> 00:11:25.740 which is just bringing in a more diverse range of voices. 176 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:30.580 And I think that the effect that has in fantasy is that you we're seeing all 177 00:11:30.580 --> 00:11:31.413 these, um, 178 00:11:31.790 --> 00:11:36.580 Fanta worlds with just different kind of cultural 179 00:11:36.580 --> 00:11:39.860 flavors to them. That is so exciting. And, um, 180 00:11:41.670 --> 00:11:43.490 and so interesting. I I think, um, 181 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:49.890 perhaps because of the great success of Tolkin and other author like 182 00:11:49.890 --> 00:11:54.440 that almost got to thinking that fantasy means this could be in 183 00:11:54.640 --> 00:11:59.000 medieval, um, magical world. Whereas in fact, 184 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:02.840 what we're getting to experience now is it was all these fantasies, 185 00:12:02.860 --> 00:12:06.600 worlds influenced by, um, different cultures and different, um, 186 00:12:06.710 --> 00:12:09.920 mythologies and beliefs and, and histories. Um, 187 00:12:09.920 --> 00:12:12.920 which I think is generally is really exciting. Um, 188 00:12:14.180 --> 00:12:18.320 we published a, um, these fantasy novel on our list. Um, 189 00:12:18.400 --> 00:12:23.100 a few years back it was very successful called the beast player by the hook. 190 00:12:24.160 --> 00:12:25.460 And I think what people, um, 191 00:12:26.760 --> 00:12:29.460 really responded to and that is that the, um, 192 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:35.100 the fantasy world was just so richly imagined detailed, not in the way that, um, 193 00:12:35.330 --> 00:12:39.580 that, you know, Western fancy readers are necessarily used to, um, 194 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:40.660 was really fascinating. 195 00:12:40.660 --> 00:12:44.300
I can remember, I can remember the experience of watching spirited away,196 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:48.940 you know, that wonderful, um, Japanese film from, 197 00:12:49.020 --> 00:12:53.100 I think it's now from the early two thousands. So it's quite old now. Anyway, 198 00:12:53.730 --> 00:12:58.420 late 1990s, I remember watching this thinking, I have not seen this before. 199 00:12:59.110 --> 00:13:03.460 Right. There was nothing here that I've seen before the imagery, 200 00:13:04.520 --> 00:13:09.260 the, this pacing, everything was just delightfully different and appealing. 201 00:13:09.260 --> 00:13:11.140 Yeah. So I agree with you. 202 00:13:11.140 --> 00:13:15.900 This is very good to have the formulas shaken up on the formulas exploded 203 00:13:16.010 --> 00:13:19.900 because new things are coming in and when we're teaching, um, 204 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:21.740 people on our fantasy course, 205 00:13:21.760 --> 00:13:24.860 one of the very first things we are looking at is what's in your, 206 00:13:25.520 --> 00:13:29.740 what's in your own background and the place you live the O your own stories 207 00:13:30.650 --> 00:13:32.820 that haven't been used before. 208 00:13:32.880 --> 00:13:35.900 And it's really exciting if someone comes up with, oh, well, you know, 209 00:13:36.040 --> 00:13:41.020 I'm from a native American background or I'm from a Australia or whatever, 210 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:44.940 you get new ideas coming through, which is yeah. You know, 211 00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:48.540 that's what we're about. We're about new creativity. Yeah. So, but you, 212 00:13:48.650 --> 00:13:53.140 what about the different flavors of fantasy from, um, 213 00:13:53.140 --> 00:13:56.020 different countries that you see? Cuz I mean, I can say in crime, 214 00:13:56.020 --> 00:14:00.620 like we all know about Scandar and cozy crime from the UK and so on. 215 00:14:00.640 --> 00:14:03.980 So you can sort of say there are different flavors in the sort crime and 216 00:14:03.980 --> 00:14:07.820 detective world. Um, what would you, you know, 217 00:14:07.820 --> 00:14:11.220 you've mentioned Holland or the Netherlands a couple of times, 218 00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:15.420 do you feel there are sort of different flavors you are getting from different 219 00:14:15.420 --> 00:14:19.300 parts of the world as they come across your desk in translation? 220 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:24.220
Yes. Well, I certainly, it certainly seems that, um,221 00:14:25.570 --> 00:14:29.300 some countries have got very rich traditions. Um, 222 00:14:30.050 --> 00:14:33.260 well I enjoy, you know, delving into, uh, I mean, 223 00:14:33.260 --> 00:14:35.780 because I did French at university, I suppose that, uh, 224 00:14:36.530 --> 00:14:39.460 it's so natural that I end up reading quite a lot of French, uh, 225 00:14:39.460 --> 00:14:44.220 fantasy submissions and the, the, the real, 226 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:48.940 the breadth of the imagination is really impressive. It's very, 227 00:14:49.280 --> 00:14:51.720 um, very creative. 228 00:14:56.970 --> 00:15:00.080
Thank you for listening to part one of this week's podcast.229 00:15:00.950 --> 00:15:03.680 Come back next week to hear part two. 230 00:15:04.930 --> 00:15:06.800 Thank you for listening to myth makers. 231 00:15:09.380 --> 00:15:13.960
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