Transcript
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Hello and welcome to Myth Makers. Myth Makers is the podcast for fantasy fans
and fantasy creatives brought to you by the Oxford Centre for Fantasy.
My name is Julia Golding. I'm an author but I also direct the Centre
and in honour of Father's Day I thought today
we would do a podcast about the top fathers in fantasy but not in any old
fantasy, I'm talking about the fathers in Lord of the Rings. Now, I've set myself a little rule
that the person that I mention has to be a father during the course of Lord of the Rings. So not
somebody in the appendices or somebody in myths and legends that are mentioned in passing. I'm
talking about the principal characters. So, who are my contenders? Well, coming at the bottom of
of the list. I have three suggestions for the worst fathers, two of which I think most
of you will agree with, one of which is going to be highly contentious, so please do write
in and tell me just how wrong I am. I think the worst father in the sort of straightforward
sense of biological father has to be Denethor. Count the ways. First of all, he clearly has
a favorite of one of his children. He prefers Boromir to Faramir, never a good parenting
tip there. The other thing is he's highly demanding and so his children never feel that
they've earned his love and they always feel they have to go beyond what they seem-- think
is sensible to earn his approval, such as Faramir riding out in what was a kind of charge
the light brigade moment for the Gondor cavalry. That's in the film. In the book, it's much more
about doing a sort of military skirmish going to reinforce Osgiliath. So he clearly is a disaster
as a father. The other way in which he is bad is he tries to burn his son alive. This is why I think
it's quite safe to put him at the bottom of the list. He doesn't wait to see if his son recovers.
He sees his son as an appendage of him. It's mentioned as being like the old kings used to do.
I'm thinking of those kings who may have buried people alive with them, like pharaonic practices
where people would be sacrificed to go to death with somebody else. He has that kind of
sternness about him, ruthlessness, and he's gone basically mad and has forgotten
that his sons are separate from him. He does have a faint flicker, which makes it even more
appalling when he doesn't take that chance at turning away from this when Gandalf challenges
him. And then of course he takes the wrong door at that point and Faramir is saved.
So, Denethor, worst father in Middle-earth during Lord of the Rings.
Coming a close second to bottom of my list is Saruman. Now we don't think of wizards being
fathers. They seem to be in some ways kind of sexless creatures. They're kind of spirits almost.
They're not sort of mortal. But the way I think of him as being a father is that he
creates a race of Uruk-hai who are in some ways a kind of genetic experiment
and he is their father. They talk about him as being their sort of leader, their father.
so he is responsible for them. That's not good, is it? Breeding a race of superhuman orc soldiers,
where you've probably done some very questionable scientific practices of crossing certain races
in your equivalent of the wizard laboratory. Not good. So Saruman doesn't get my vote here
as a good father. The other thing, of course, is that he is quite ready to sacrifice his
Orc children, his Uruk-hai children, by sending them out and doesn't seem that trust or never
seems to question the value of their life. They're basically cannon fodder. So, Saruman,
terrible father. Now, I said I had a controversial third pick. This is a bit tongue-in-cheek,
but I've got a feeling Treebeard's not a great father. He's a good shepherd of the trees,
but he does seem to have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to families, because he's forgotten
where the entwives are and he seems to be sort of a bit absent-minded about his entlings.
So I don't think Treebeard makes a brilliant father. He shows a very kindly qualities to others,
but one senses that maybe the way you are a father as an entity is very different from the human
version of this. We don't see any details about that, but the fact that he's forgotten about where
his entwife is suggests that all is not well in the family of the ents. They're on a dying
trajectory. So they're not great fathers, are they? Because they need their wives in order to be
fathers. There you go. So that's my rationale for putting them in the not-so-good father pile.
Okay, so here we get to some of those who make up the top of my list.
So coming in in my top four is Gaffer Gamgee. I know he's a bit of a windbag, but he's a man of
the Earth and he hasn't got very big horizons and he's always a bit conservative, in a small C,
into what he thinks should happen. But there is something really admirable about his stubbornness.
He was one of the ones who stood up to Saruman when he takes over the Shire.
all those people who are on Saruman's side, the men who come and help sort of scour the--make
the Shire like Mordor. So he's got real sterling qualities. He's that curmudgeon, that sort of
person who won't change, can't change, but is in some ways really admirable for it. And clearly,
he has passed on to Sam wonderful qualities of being a great good in the garden. Sam himself is
such a well-principled hobbit that you feel that he must be getting that from his parents. So I
think, aside from the stubborn side, I think Gaffer is a great father. Actually, if you remember,
Frodo is also very appreciative of him, particularly his potatoes. I think he falls
into the good father column. Now we get to the top three. Well, I've got three contenders here.
I haven't included Aragorn because even though in the Peter Jackson films you briefly see him
as a father in Arwen's future dream. That, of course, is carried out in the appendices.
In the books, he's not a father, so I'm excluding him. I'm sure he was a brilliant father.
I reckon he would have been the best if he was allowed in underneath my rules, but I've excluded
him. So that leaves me with number three. Coming in at number three is Theoden. Now, obviously,
Theodred is killed before we meet him. He's been killed in a skirmish at the ford by orcs.
And so we see Theoden when he's mourning his son, but also under the spell. But the reason why I
think you can count him as a great dad is he has adopted his sister's son and sister's daughter,
who of course are Eirmir and Erwin. They very much love him as a son and daughter with their
father and they talk about him in that way a lot of the time. Clearly he's had a ropey couple of
years under the influence of Grima Wormtongue, but before and after that time, you can see that he is
is a man of action, a man who has ran his household well, and they clearly love him,
and he has earned their loyalty. And he is brave and he is courageous. Those are all
qualities which he has passed on to his adopted son and daughter. And also, he's so tender
in the way that he talks to Erwin and recognizes her abilities. So though he's not in favor of her
riding off to war, he does promote her to run the kingdom in his absence, which if you think about
the relative roles of women in Lord of the Rings is pretty much a promotion. So within his own
worldview. He is very progressive. So I think that Théoden, as someone who recognizes talent
and promotes it in his children, is a good dad. Okay, so here's number three.
Coming in at number two is Sam Gamgee. We only see him when he's got babies, basically.
but we do see him as a father. And his greatness is shown by the fact that he goes home to them.
He doesn't say, "Oh Frodo, let me on the ship. I want to go to the Undying Lands." No, he's torn,
but his center of gravity and dedication is to the home. So the last line is, "I'm back."
So that is very important that he creates a home and nurtures the Gamgee family after all those
adventures and puts aside the roving life that he could have carried on with for the home life.
And we know in the appendices that he goes on to be mayor numerous times and is clearly a person of
importance in the shire, raising a large happy family. So in terms of an ordinary, a man who's
come through, oh man, a hobbit who's come through extraordinary times to end up as able to be a good
father in ordinary times, I think Sam is number two on my list. So, who does that leave as number
one? When you look down the list of the main characters in Lord of the Rings, there are quite
a few of them who aren't fathers or we don't know are fathers. One I've missed out who is,
who we do meet is Celeborn. I miss that out because his daughter has already passed away
by the time the story starts, so we don't really see him in a paternal role.
So who is number one? Number one is Elrond. Now the funny thing about elves, amongst the many
funny things about elves, of course, is how long they live. So once you are an elf parent,
you are it for pretty much an eternity of being in that relationship, which must be incredibly
difficult for both parent and child. At what point is somebody grown up? Though that's a fantasy
frame around an issue, it is an issue for any parent. When do you consider your children are
grown up? When do you let them take - well, not that you can probably stop them - but when do you
enable them, give your blessing to take decisions that you don't like.
This is where I think Elrond shows his greatness. I'm not talking about him being a parent to his
son, so clearly, you know, they're all close. Nobody's gone off in a huff, so they've got a
good working family relationship there. But it's with Arwen that we see the pain of letting go.
And in his case, of course, it's a massive one of letting go forever.
Because Arwen, by choosing to stay with Aragorn and taking a mortal life,
is separating herself from the rest of the family.
And he doesn't-- Her future is beyond the bounds of the world,
so he doesn't know if they'd ever be reunited,
probably not in terms of the thinking of that world.
And I think that this is his most fatherly quality,
is the fact that he lets go of her.
And though it is obviously sad and bitter
to have that parting, he doesn't stop her.
He comes to the wedding, he gives her away, he enables her.
And that is why he is my number one father in Middle Earth.
Do let me know if you agree with my picks.
And if I've missed out anybody obvious, that would be terrible.
But I hope you've enjoyed it and well done Elrond and well done to all those
fathers out there on your special day.
Thank you very much for listening.
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