First Reactions To The Rings Of Power (Amazon Prime)

WEBVTT100:00:07.400 --> 00:00:08.870Welcome to myth makers.200:00:09.220 --> 00:00:13.910Myth makers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy creatives300:00:13.910 --> 00:00:16.790brought to you by the Oxford center for fantasy.400:00:17.480 --> 00:00:21.110My name is Julia Golding. I'm the director of the center,500:00:21.110 --> 00:00:25.110but I also spend most of my life being an author writing in many different600:00:25.110 --> 00:00:26.830genres for all different age groups,700:00:27.290 --> 00:00:29.990but very often returning to the genre of fantasy.800:00:31.060 --> 00:00:34.390I've been deeply inspired by talking all my writing life.900:00:34.680 --> 00:00:37.990So it was a great excitement that I saw that, uh,1000:00:37.990 --> 00:00:42.910Amazon prime were making a serious based on the second age of talking.1100:00:43.850 --> 00:00:48.150Now, the Oxford center for fantasy runs, creative courses,1200:00:48.730 --> 00:00:53.030and the students have kept together after the courses to, uh,1300:00:53.140 --> 00:00:55.590keep us a group of creative, supporting each other,1400:00:55.590 --> 00:00:57.630a sort of modern form of inklings.1500:00:58.090 --> 00:01:02.190And to mark the arrival of the Amazon series,1600:01:02.320 --> 00:01:05.990we had a first reaction gathering where we could share our views.1700:01:06.600 --> 00:01:10.430So if you want to listen to what fellow fans were thinking,1800:01:10.430 --> 00:01:15.190please listen on because what we've done in this is first part of it is1900:01:15.260 --> 00:01:20.230I explain where the material in the series seems to depart from2000:01:20.660 --> 00:01:25.190what you would find in the sort of canonical, you know, talking material.2100:01:26.040 --> 00:01:26.390Uh,2200:01:26.390 --> 00:01:30.510so if you have wondered about that is a very brief guide about the differences2300:01:30.510 --> 00:01:33.030between what you can find in the silver really,2400:01:33.030 --> 00:01:35.830and the appendices and the Amazon series,2500:01:36.010 --> 00:01:40.830but then you can listen to the views exchanged on what we made of the series.2600:01:41.250 --> 00:01:44.110And perhaps you can also add in your own comments at the end,2700:01:44.110 --> 00:01:48.750if you agree with us, we complete our discussion with our star rating.2800:01:48.960 --> 00:01:53.350So stay tuned to find out if we think it's a hit or a miss,2900:01:53.990 --> 00:01:57.110thank you very much and enjoy our discussion.3000:01:59.400 --> 00:02:00.080So.3100:02:00.080 --> 00:02:00.913Um,3200:02:02.760 --> 00:02:07.710welcome everybody to the early reaction to the rings of power3300:02:07.980 --> 00:02:11.990series based on, um, talking's material.3400:02:13.620 --> 00:02:18.150What I'm going to do is I'm going to give you a little introduction just to say3500:02:19.100 --> 00:02:24.030what they're doing in the story that is based3600:02:24.040 --> 00:02:26.910on the appends, uh,3700:02:26.910 --> 00:02:31.590and the Soin and where it differs in case you're interested in what3800:02:31.590 --> 00:02:35.830what's going on. Um, only briefly, not,3900:02:35.830 --> 00:02:39.230not absolutely to deep nerd level. Um,4000:02:39.290 --> 00:02:42.670I'm BA there's bound to be YouTube videos out there about that,4100:02:42.770 --> 00:02:46.830but I just give you the broad brush strokes of the kind of decisions they're4200:02:46.830 --> 00:02:49.670making, which I thought was really fascinating.4300:02:50.450 --> 00:02:55.230And then I was going to ask you for your reactions about in,4400:02:55.230 --> 00:02:58.590in three areas. So have a think about this.4500:02:58.590 --> 00:03:03.320The first one is your reactions to the story, you know,4600:03:03.320 --> 00:03:06.480did you enjoy watching it the second, uh,4700:03:06.530 --> 00:03:10.690is your reaction to the performance of the actors4800:03:11.730 --> 00:03:16.130embodying these characters? And the last one is the creative realization of it,4900:03:16.590 --> 00:03:21.200the special effects, the looks, the music and so on.5000:03:21.890 --> 00:03:25.280So have a think, um, hopefully people will disagree.5100:03:25.890 --> 00:03:28.840We don't all want to say, oh yes, it was wonderful or no, it was terrible.5200:03:29.010 --> 00:03:32.040So it'd be, don't worry if you don't agree with other people.5300:03:32.040 --> 00:03:35.960Cause that's what we want. We want discussion about it. So first of all,5400:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.320just to give you a sort little bit of background, um,5500:03:40.620 --> 00:03:44.880you probably all know that the rights for talking material are, you know,5600:03:45.560 --> 00:03:47.720Byzantine. Um,5700:03:48.130 --> 00:03:51.200so they're only allowed to do certain things.5800:03:51.500 --> 00:03:54.520And as I understand it, um,5900:03:54.520 --> 00:03:59.480they've sort of got rights to second age material talking's world6000:04:00.250 --> 00:04:03.320is described in well it's four ages, really?6100:04:03.320 --> 00:04:07.120So the first stage is from the creation of, well,6200:04:07.590 --> 00:04:11.520I suppose creation comes even before the first stage, but there's a creation.6300:04:11.710 --> 00:04:13.280Then there's the first stage,6400:04:14.040 --> 00:04:17.680which is really dominated by the,6500:04:17.680 --> 00:04:20.080the silver Maril the silver reels,6600:04:20.080 --> 00:04:24.440which are a jewel made by the elves and the wars about that6700:04:25.220 --> 00:04:26.920and the defeat of the big,6800:04:26.920 --> 00:04:30.360bad of the Mor who's a character called Morgo.6900:04:31.510 --> 00:04:35.960Then once his defeated, then there's the second age.7000:04:35.960 --> 00:04:38.200And this is where, uh,7100:04:38.200 --> 00:04:42.720the rings of power sit and coming up7200:04:43.610 --> 00:04:47.400is the captain Sarah who's like7300:04:48.100 --> 00:04:50.950taking over and he's now the big Badie.7400:04:51.370 --> 00:04:54.710And this is the age when, um,7500:04:56.150 --> 00:05:00.400sort of ELs men and walls are all living alongside each other.7600:05:01.060 --> 00:05:02.080And that age,7700:05:02.340 --> 00:05:07.240age completes with the battle that you see at the start7800:05:07.650 --> 00:05:09.280of the Lord of the rings films,7900:05:10.110 --> 00:05:13.640when the ring is cut from the hand of sour, okay.8000:05:14.100 --> 00:05:16.600The third age, which is very long,8100:05:16.600 --> 00:05:20.400we only see the end of it in Lord of the rings is the age,8200:05:21.610 --> 00:05:22.443um,8300:05:23.100 --> 00:05:27.690of the rise and fall of Goor really with the hobbits kind of establish8400:05:27.870 --> 00:05:29.730establishing themselves in the Shire.8500:05:30.190 --> 00:05:35.050And that age ends when the ring is destroyed and8600:05:35.050 --> 00:05:39.600we are sorted living in the fourth age. So that's,8700:05:39.600 --> 00:05:43.040that's the kind of outline. So they've got the middle bit,8800:05:43.040 --> 00:05:47.600they've got well middle, but they got the second age of that. Um,8900:05:48.250 --> 00:05:52.680so they've obviously made the decision to follow9000:05:54.810 --> 00:05:58.520a composite cast in the same way as you do in fellowship with the ring,9100:05:58.520 --> 00:06:00.440but they're, they're starting with go.9200:06:01.460 --> 00:06:06.240And the main things where this series works with the book9300:06:07.060 --> 00:06:10.000and differs from the book, hang around that character.9400:06:11.160 --> 00:06:16.130So if you've watched the first two episodes, you'll see, go is,9500:06:16.130 --> 00:06:20.970is realized as a warrior who,9600:06:21.940 --> 00:06:23.210um, is fighting,9700:06:23.300 --> 00:06:27.970is basically aware of the returning evil and trying to persuade others that it's9800:06:27.970 --> 00:06:32.010coming back. So yes, in talking's material,9900:06:32.520 --> 00:06:36.490collateral does start over in valor. She's really, really old,10000:06:37.040 --> 00:06:41.010really, really old already by the second age, which are kind of,10100:06:41.010 --> 00:06:43.530cause the actress is so beautiful and young, young looking,10200:06:43.750 --> 00:06:46.570but she's one of the oldest people around at the time,10300:06:47.430 --> 00:06:49.810she was one of four children of who,10400:06:49.810 --> 00:06:54.660one of those is her brother who appears at the beginning of the series. Um,10500:06:54.840 --> 00:06:59.300her brother FINRA, he dies in one of the hidden kingdoms of the elves.10600:06:59.300 --> 00:07:00.780Elves had these hidden kingdoms.10700:07:01.030 --> 00:07:05.790He dies in Agathon as do her other two brothers die in other10800:07:05.790 --> 00:07:09.350battles. So she does how she has seen death. That's true.10900:07:11.010 --> 00:07:14.950But in terms of talking story, she's not this warrior figure.11000:07:15.690 --> 00:07:20.630She spends most of the first age in a place called Doria alongside11100:07:20.630 --> 00:07:24.230this figure called Milian. Who's like a bit like Gander's,11200:07:24.230 --> 00:07:28.600she's a sort of Aang jewel type. It's not, that's not the right word,11300:07:28.600 --> 00:07:33.600but she's kind of semi, semi divine. She's not quite normally, um,11400:07:33.600 --> 00:07:36.360Elvin or human or anything. Um,11500:07:36.560 --> 00:07:39.240she's not really junior to Gil. Gillad,11600:07:39.800 --> 00:07:43.800who's the high king in terms of the talking version of this.11700:07:44.700 --> 00:07:49.220And so she's not the sort of swash baling warrior that's been realized she does11800:07:49.220 --> 00:07:49.760fight,11900:07:49.760 --> 00:07:54.300but her fight is more like a leader deciding where the armies go rather than,12000:07:54.300 --> 00:07:58.460rather than that rather elegant snow troll, um, moment, which I loved,12100:07:58.460 --> 00:08:03.360but you know, she's not kind of in the, in the book.12200:08:04.250 --> 00:08:04.620Um,12300:08:04.620 --> 00:08:08.600and she of course has her mental warfare of having one of the rings to keep evil12400:08:08.600 --> 00:08:13.080at bay. So she is a fighter, but just not quite the lovely warrior that we see.12500:08:14.130 --> 00:08:14.963Um,12600:08:15.150 --> 00:08:20.040it's also not mentioned that she's under a curse or a doom because the reason12700:08:20.040 --> 00:08:24.780the LS end up in middle earth is because it's like a,12800:08:25.110 --> 00:08:28.250um, it's a, there's a,12900:08:28.760 --> 00:08:33.250a fight over the silver reels and they leave to go and reclaim them,13000:08:33.250 --> 00:08:37.730but there's some kin laying that goes on. And so they're under a, uh,13100:08:37.880 --> 00:08:41.010a sort of doom where she can't go back to valor.13200:08:41.010 --> 00:08:44.690So the element in the story where13300:08:45.960 --> 00:08:49.050this is in, I think it's yeah, it's in the first episode.13400:08:49.050 --> 00:08:52.410So hopefully everyone's seen that where they're said, oh, it's okay. You,13500:08:52.410 --> 00:08:54.970you luck can go back to valor, actually goad.13600:08:55.040 --> 00:08:58.440That would be really problematic for her. Cause she's still under this doom.13700:08:58.820 --> 00:09:03.720And that is, that is another moment for that to be lifted. Um,13800:09:04.350 --> 00:09:06.690and also they've missed out poor old Keller.13900:09:07.280 --> 00:09:11.210Born's been cut cuz she actually meets him in the first stage14000:09:11.950 --> 00:09:16.130and they they're in love and live very happily for centuries,14100:09:16.130 --> 00:09:19.890not always together, but they're, they're an item, um,14200:09:19.890 --> 00:09:23.100for centuries way before the series starts.14300:09:23.200 --> 00:09:27.180But of course the story reason for getting rid of him is it's more exciting to14400:09:27.180 --> 00:09:31.620see her as a free agent. Whereas if she's got like ke born kind of alongside it,14500:09:31.640 --> 00:09:35.660you can see how that doesn't work. So is being cut.14600:09:37.250 --> 00:09:40.190Um, so there, the big difference is there,14700:09:41.230 --> 00:09:43.120when you look at the other stories,14800:09:43.120 --> 00:09:47.830they're following the overall impression that yes,14900:09:47.830 --> 00:09:52.110collateral is aware of the return of evil and warns against Sarah,15000:09:52.110 --> 00:09:55.830that is correct. That's where they're sticking to the script.15100:09:57.200 --> 00:09:57.930Um,15200:09:57.930 --> 00:10:02.910the idea that the men feel they're sort of under the Elvin boots,15300:10:05.420 --> 00:10:08.780kinda, maybe an interesting,15400:10:09.280 --> 00:10:12.660but actually it's the IANS. If you wanna be technical,15500:10:12.660 --> 00:10:17.340who kind of are a bit more like the colonizing force at this time and we haven't15600:10:17.340 --> 00:10:18.420even reached the new Menor,15700:10:19.240 --> 00:10:22.580but I suppose you could say some men would've felt that15800:10:23.910 --> 00:10:28.330half it, the proto ops. Yes,15900:10:28.330 --> 00:10:30.490of course the hops must have had some ancestors around,16000:10:30.750 --> 00:10:32.490but very little is known about them,16100:10:32.490 --> 00:10:36.130which I suppose is quite good for a storytelling point of view because they can16200:10:36.130 --> 00:10:40.290just kind of do anything with them as long as they're not really super visible.16300:10:41.210 --> 00:10:41.560Um,16400:10:41.560 --> 00:10:46.040it seems right that they would be a nomadic culture and you can see the choice16500:10:46.090 --> 00:10:49.360of having a conservatism,16600:10:49.480 --> 00:10:53.640which you see in the hobbits when they're settled, even within the half foot,16700:10:53.640 --> 00:10:56.440you've got the idea, you don't leave the trail. So there's,16800:10:56.440 --> 00:11:00.360there's they stick together as a group. So yeah, that all seems to, to fit,16900:11:01.290 --> 00:11:02.123um,17000:11:03.390 --> 00:11:07.440invented is AIA and Bronwin that storyline,17100:11:07.940 --> 00:11:10.840but I dunno if you've noticed they live in the place,17200:11:10.880 --> 00:11:13.800which later becomes on the map,17300:11:14.770 --> 00:11:15.930anybody's spot where17400:11:17.880 --> 00:11:22.410they're living basically in what becomes mortal, um,17500:11:23.960 --> 00:11:28.870or in that very, that region or the brown lenss. So the big,17600:11:28.870 --> 00:11:32.550the origins of evil that you see there with the sort of, you know,17700:11:32.550 --> 00:11:34.230the cow with the black milk and everything,17800:11:34.230 --> 00:11:37.910you can see the turning of those lands. So, you know, the,17900:11:37.910 --> 00:11:40.910the omens are not great for their society.18000:11:42.360 --> 00:11:47.220So that's a little sense of where it's following a track.18100:11:47.220 --> 00:11:51.980I think the broad brush show brushstrokes are sort of on within18200:11:51.980 --> 00:11:54.640the talking well, but there is a lot of particularly go gradual,18300:11:54.670 --> 00:11:59.080like reimagining her to do a different job, um,18400:11:59.400 --> 00:12:04.370which probably is sending some people, you know, crazy, but that,18500:12:04.370 --> 00:12:05.650that's basically what they're doing.18600:12:06.500 --> 00:12:10.610So I'm not gonna give a view on whether it's good or bad to do that.18700:12:11.190 --> 00:12:15.370I'd like to hear how you felt, and this is where it goes over to you to discuss.18800:12:16.040 --> 00:12:18.210What was your feeling about, um,18900:12:18.210 --> 00:12:22.490the story that did you find it fun or did you find it too slow?19000:12:22.910 --> 00:12:26.810Who would like to chip in with an, an early reaction19100:12:30.230 --> 00:12:31.590Nancy off you go?19200:12:33.660 --> 00:12:37.100So I do like it,19300:12:38.190 --> 00:12:42.760I watched both episodes twice. I, um,19400:12:44.240 --> 00:12:45.970I feel like we're in middle earth,19500:12:46.530 --> 00:12:50.890which was a really important thing. Um,19600:12:51.880 --> 00:12:52.713I,19700:12:54.640 --> 00:12:59.490I really liked the relationship between Elron and Durham and that19800:12:59.490 --> 00:13:03.370we're gonna get to see Kaza doom at its height.19900:13:03.600 --> 00:13:05.090I like that development.20000:13:05.920 --> 00:13:10.210I really had a problem with Gori,20100:13:10.210 --> 00:13:14.010only others being offered to go to valor.20200:13:15.180 --> 00:13:19.570Um, not only because the way they made it look.20300:13:21.100 --> 00:13:22.850So I find those,20400:13:23.620 --> 00:13:28.460those female elves with the veils on really creepy <laugh>20500:13:28.720 --> 00:13:32.500and I'm like, I don't understand what that is about.20600:13:32.600 --> 00:13:36.740And so I was thinking about this last night after watching it for the sec,20700:13:36.740 --> 00:13:40.180the second episode for the second time that, um,20800:13:41.120 --> 00:13:44.930really gradual is the only female elf.20900:13:45.100 --> 00:13:48.450We get to see her face basically.21000:13:49.110 --> 00:13:53.970And I know she's the star, but it's very weird to me. And I was like,21100:13:54.520 --> 00:13:58.290I mean, part of the reason why, you know,21200:13:58.290 --> 00:14:03.290when we see GE at the mirror with photo and she gets21300:14:03.290 --> 00:14:07.450all big and bad and then she comes back to herself and she's like,21400:14:07.450 --> 00:14:10.970I passed the test, I can go into the west. I mean,21500:14:11.950 --> 00:14:13.480part the thing,21600:14:13.480 --> 00:14:18.040the reason that's so impactful is because she had been21700:14:18.110 --> 00:14:21.120banned from valor and had,21800:14:22.380 --> 00:14:27.050had to protect her little slice of21900:14:27.370 --> 00:14:31.930Vindo and was fighting SAR that entire time22000:14:32.480 --> 00:14:36.810with the help of the, with NA ne NAIA,22100:14:37.500 --> 00:14:42.170um, and her NAIA. And, um,22200:14:43.080 --> 00:14:48.060and so she does pass the test and become forgiven, you know?22300:14:48.190 --> 00:14:52.440So by allowing her the opportunity to go back to Lanor,22400:14:52.440 --> 00:14:56.760like right at the very beginning, I think it takes away from that.22500:14:57.930 --> 00:15:01.360Um, I don't have a problem with her being this warrior.22600:15:02.770 --> 00:15:05.600Um, Tolkin did say she was, you know,22700:15:05.600 --> 00:15:10.480really strong and he called her name was like manmade in. And, um,22800:15:10.890 --> 00:15:14.000so I don't really have a problem with that. I'm not,22900:15:14.000 --> 00:15:19.000I was thinking about the whole caliber thing too last night that he23000:15:19.000 --> 00:15:23.280could still be there. He could be, you know,23100:15:23.280 --> 00:15:27.360because he's, they're not always together. Like you said, you know,23200:15:27.360 --> 00:15:31.640and he could be off on his own doing the whole, you know,23300:15:31.640 --> 00:15:34.760founding Lauren thing or whatever.23400:15:35.570 --> 00:15:37.880So I just, um,23500:15:37.880 --> 00:15:42.160cause I don't have a problem with them making her like this, but,23600:15:42.570 --> 00:15:45.680um, I did kind of have a problem with, um,23700:15:45.790 --> 00:15:50.720yoga led and him saying that23800:15:50.720 --> 00:15:53.800evil was gone, you know, like he seemed an Elron,23900:15:53.800 --> 00:15:58.040they both seemed like politicians sort of, you know, and I guess they would be.24000:15:58.040 --> 00:16:01.600And I guess even in the Lord of the rings Elron was a bit of a politician,24100:16:01.790 --> 00:16:06.480I mean, and, but to dismiss it so offhand,24200:16:06.740 --> 00:16:09.950you know, just because, you know,24300:16:09.950 --> 00:16:11.790she said she found includes,24400:16:11.790 --> 00:16:15.870but I don't know that whole thing just seemed weird to me. Um,24500:16:15.870 --> 00:16:20.750I love the hos the horror foots. Um, I love the horror foots.24600:16:21.020 --> 00:16:25.910I love this mystery man who it does seem it24700:16:25.910 --> 00:16:29.750is who I think it is. And I projected a while back that who it would be.24800:16:29.750 --> 00:16:32.870But I'm wondering if they're going, I don't know if I wanna spoil that,24900:16:33.450 --> 00:16:38.270but I I'm wondering if, if they're leading us on with that.25000:16:38.720 --> 00:16:42.870Um, but I like the way the hard foots are being portrayed and they seem very25100:16:42.870 --> 00:16:44.310natural. I mean,25200:16:44.310 --> 00:16:48.710the elves are the ones that felt most stilted to me where the humans and the,25300:16:50.110 --> 00:16:54.610the, um, hard foots seemed very, uh,25400:16:55.240 --> 00:16:59.300real, um, uh,25500:17:01.720 --> 00:17:03.420I'm not sure about the,25600:17:03.720 --> 00:17:08.500the L human relationship right off the bat. And I'm also worried that,25700:17:08.500 --> 00:17:12.660you know, this thing between gradual and, um,25800:17:13.400 --> 00:17:16.580how brand, uh, they're hinting at something.25900:17:16.580 --> 00:17:20.540And I don't think they should go there, but, um,26000:17:21.400 --> 00:17:26.000you know, so far I really I'm happy with the way it looks.26100:17:26.270 --> 00:17:31.070I I'm happy with the most of the26200:17:31.070 --> 00:17:35.750characters the way they are. And I mean, there's, I,26300:17:36.340 --> 00:17:40.930I think I heard there's only eight episodes and that's a lot to26400:17:40.930 --> 00:17:42.930develop in the first season. And what,26500:17:42.930 --> 00:17:47.090what had worried me was in seeing the previews,26600:17:47.410 --> 00:17:51.800there was a whole lot going on very early,26700:17:52.140 --> 00:17:56.480you know, like they really jumped the timeline.26800:17:56.480 --> 00:17:59.120Like I know they said they com am I frozen?26900:18:00.130 --> 00:18:00.963No.27000:18:01.290 --> 00:18:05.440It said they compressed it, but I think they may be compressing it too much.27100:18:06.920 --> 00:18:11.070So, um, I don't know about the,27200:18:11.070 --> 00:18:16.070the naked man, but I had, I, my I've got a kind of either or,27300:18:16.080 --> 00:18:18.270oh, so I was thinking, well,27400:18:18.270 --> 00:18:23.230it'd be fun to use that guy as the Hoit is introducing Sarah,27500:18:23.330 --> 00:18:23.830you know,27600:18:23.830 --> 00:18:28.230it could be Sarah who's kind of fallen angel fallen from the sky Lucifer figure.27700:18:28.850 --> 00:18:32.430But because he's, and also it looks like an eye, you know,27800:18:32.430 --> 00:18:35.830that's sort of in the middle of that thing. But then when I actually saw him,27900:18:35.830 --> 00:18:40.310I thought, oh, he's definitely channeling a kind of GNED off the gray grunge.28000:18:40.800 --> 00:18:45.380So maybe he's a wizard and he starts being a bit scary.28100:18:45.840 --> 00:18:49.100And actually that's a classic thing to do. Isn't it. If it's,28200:18:49.220 --> 00:18:53.100if it actually turns out to be good, you start him a bit scary. Whereas if,28300:18:53.100 --> 00:18:56.780if he was gonna be Sarah, you'd start him being really nice.28400:18:57.490 --> 00:18:58.420I, I do think.28500:18:58.420 --> 00:19:02.900He's and do it the other way. So my money's shifted being, if I'm in Vegas,28600:19:03.000 --> 00:19:07.960I'm gonna put him on the wizard Gand chip. I think,28700:19:08.030 --> 00:19:11.760I dunno. What do other people think? Cause we don't know. I don't know. Uh.28800:19:11.910 --> 00:19:13.080Yeah, especially.28900:19:16.150 --> 00:19:18.780So catch here. You've got your hand up. What, what's your view?29000:19:19.730 --> 00:19:23.780Yeah, so I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. I was very apprehensive.29100:19:23.780 --> 00:19:27.780They, they wouldn't be respectful to talk and, but they were, in my opinion,29200:19:27.930 --> 00:19:29.580more respectful than not.29300:19:29.890 --> 00:19:34.420I am totally in love with the couple of the woman healer and the guard29400:19:34.480 --> 00:19:36.180elf. Um,29500:19:36.360 --> 00:19:41.300and it did surprise me because I think the been totally imagined for the Amazon29600:19:41.300 --> 00:19:45.140show, but I like the chemistry that they had.29700:19:45.450 --> 00:19:48.900I liked the individual characters. Um,29800:19:48.900 --> 00:19:50.780I think out of all of the ELFS,29900:19:50.780 --> 00:19:55.780the guard for me had the most behavior that I would expect because I30000:19:55.780 --> 00:20:00.740was very disappointed by almost all other elves. Um, a I,30100:20:00.740 --> 00:20:04.060yeah. Uh, I was not convinced by the actor. Um,30200:20:04.110 --> 00:20:07.300he didn't seem enough ELV to me <laugh> uh,30300:20:07.600 --> 00:20:11.580but I did like the worst, uh, the hard foods.30400:20:12.320 --> 00:20:13.460And then, yeah,30500:20:13.460 --> 00:20:17.980generally I found it's very visually appealing kind of divided from collateral.30600:20:18.170 --> 00:20:22.380Didn't like her in the first episode liked her very much on,30700:20:22.380 --> 00:20:25.980in the second way more in the second episode. Um,30800:20:26.240 --> 00:20:28.980but I also try, uh, it it's, yeah,30900:20:29.050 --> 00:20:32.540it's kind of difficult for me to judge it, uh,31000:20:32.810 --> 00:20:35.460with a lot of precision, uh,31100:20:35.460 --> 00:20:40.060because I'm not that familiar with all of the prehistory of the middle earth.31200:20:41.310 --> 00:20:44.140Uh, so yeah, uh,31300:20:44.140 --> 00:20:49.040more happy way more happy than I thought I would be and love the31400:20:49.320 --> 00:20:53.040elephant, uh, human couple generally. I'm always a sucker for a,31500:20:53.350 --> 00:20:58.040a difficult love story. Um, so I'm for now,31600:20:58.040 --> 00:21:02.640I'm mostly here to, to follow this couple. It's like my main interest for now.31700:21:03.810 --> 00:21:04.160No,31800:21:04.160 --> 00:21:07.240that's really fascinating cuz they're the couple when they come on the screen,31900:21:07.240 --> 00:21:11.200I think, oh, come on. <laugh> I'm less interested in them though.32000:21:11.200 --> 00:21:15.840I do like his breast plate. I spend a lot of time looking at thinking, oh,32100:21:15.840 --> 00:21:17.840it's a green man. Um.32200:21:18.530 --> 00:21:23.160Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because I, I think finally the costumes were very nice,32300:21:23.180 --> 00:21:26.560but it was a bit disappointed by the armor of the elves.32400:21:26.750 --> 00:21:30.640I would expect more of intricate metal work, uh,32500:21:30.640 --> 00:21:34.040on their armor and it's very plain to me, but yeah,32600:21:34.040 --> 00:21:35.160it's the kind of need picking.32700:21:36.990 --> 00:21:40.880Yeah. We, we, I spent a knit pick there. That's what we are here to do. I mean,32800:21:41.220 --> 00:21:43.560why not? Rowan,32900:21:43.560 --> 00:21:48.280you got also had a hand raised. What was your reaction?33000:21:49.250 --> 00:21:50.083Um,33100:21:50.530 --> 00:21:55.120so potentially controversial in a room full of such dedicated, uh,33200:21:55.120 --> 00:21:58.960talking fans and fans of literature and the books,33300:22:00.050 --> 00:22:02.880um, as am I obviously,33400:22:02.880 --> 00:22:05.200but when I was younger,33500:22:05.670 --> 00:22:08.360I was super critical of any, um,33600:22:08.830 --> 00:22:13.800film or TV show that did not replicate exactly the book I had33700:22:13.800 --> 00:22:17.720just read it, ruined it for me. If I did not see an exact,33800:22:17.750 --> 00:22:22.030like the same version of that story on that screen,33900:22:23.100 --> 00:22:24.010as I've got older,34000:22:24.010 --> 00:22:28.930I could not be less interested in seeing an exact copy of the book on34100:22:28.930 --> 00:22:30.880screen. Um,34200:22:33.680 --> 00:22:34.513and34300:22:35.690 --> 00:22:40.660like I think it that's come with having a different understanding of art now34400:22:40.660 --> 00:22:45.500and also like studying film and studying TV a bit more and like learning the34500:22:45.500 --> 00:22:49.420differences between like writing for, you know, writing a novel writing,34600:22:49.420 --> 00:22:51.580short stories, writing for TV writing film,34700:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.740I'm a bit more sympathetic to TV and film writers now in knowing that34800:22:57.520 --> 00:23:00.520every scene has to have something, you know, there has to, but yeah,34900:23:00.580 --> 00:23:04.640and talking was not a writer who condensed things.35000:23:07.490 --> 00:23:10.680He was not, not a writer who condensed things. Um,35100:23:12.010 --> 00:23:16.430and you have to do that in TV. Um, and you have to,35200:23:16.430 --> 00:23:20.830every single scene has to have, that has to have something,35300:23:21.330 --> 00:23:24.950you know, with film has to have something in it. So while there was some things,35400:23:25.520 --> 00:23:27.630um, that I was like, oh, you know, the,35500:23:27.630 --> 00:23:31.670the talking nerd in me went a little bit oh, you know, like, um, you know,35600:23:31.670 --> 00:23:36.430going to, uh, VA or, and, you know, think, you know, going back there,35700:23:36.460 --> 00:23:40.630I was a bit like, oh, that's a bit odd. Um,35800:23:41.210 --> 00:23:44.270and then I thought, yeah, you know what, though, I can see why they've done it.35900:23:46.130 --> 00:23:50.200Um, I sort of look at it with very different,36000:23:52.060 --> 00:23:56.120you know, different hats now, I guess I wear when I'm watching something on TV.36100:23:57.090 --> 00:24:00.880Um, so I really loved it. Um,36200:24:02.220 --> 00:24:06.070I like what Nancy said about feeling like you're in middle earth, cuz I,36300:24:06.070 --> 00:24:09.830I got that feeling too. That was one of the most important thing for me,36400:24:09.830 --> 00:24:13.670I think, um, not it being a,36500:24:15.120 --> 00:24:20.070uh, exact copy of the characters that were written, um,36600:24:21.290 --> 00:24:26.160in the books and not it being the36700:24:26.160 --> 00:24:29.040exact sort of, you know, law that was in the books,36800:24:29.040 --> 00:24:33.640but more that feeling of middle earth, that feeling of going home, um,36900:24:34.060 --> 00:24:38.240was the most important thing for me. And I definitely got that. Um,37000:24:40.560 --> 00:24:45.390so yeah, that's, that's how I feel about it. I think with seeing, um,37100:24:46.960 --> 00:24:51.730characters as well that we've got to know through reading the books and also37200:24:51.970 --> 00:24:53.330watching like the older, the rings in the Hobbit,37300:24:53.400 --> 00:24:56.890seeing new actors take on those roles is always gonna be a bit,37400:24:56.890 --> 00:25:00.730even at a different time is always gonna be a bit jarring at first. You know,37500:25:00.730 --> 00:25:02.890you've sort of have to, um,37600:25:03.150 --> 00:25:07.010refamiliarize yourself with that character again,37700:25:07.010 --> 00:25:09.370because you are seeing them on screen, but it's, you know,37800:25:09.370 --> 00:25:10.330it's a different actor.37900:25:10.330 --> 00:25:13.490They're bringing something completely different to the character. And I,38000:25:13.560 --> 00:25:17.250I understand like people's sort of, um,38100:25:17.890 --> 00:25:19.930reactions like Elron especially like,38200:25:19.930 --> 00:25:23.970but I think we will become familiar with them again, we will,38300:25:24.870 --> 00:25:28.570you know, you know, become acquainted with them and that, uh,38400:25:29.820 --> 00:25:34.670um, this, um, portrayal of,38500:25:34.760 --> 00:25:37.270of him and the other characters as well. But it,38600:25:37.270 --> 00:25:42.030it does definitely have that sort of jarring feeling at first. Um, but yeah,38700:25:42.030 --> 00:25:45.670I think that'll, I think that'll come in time. Um, I think.38800:25:46.000 --> 00:25:49.390To pick up on your point about Elron there is, I did see him as a politician.38900:25:49.390 --> 00:25:52.430I saw him as a diplomat as an ex diplomat,39000:25:52.580 --> 00:25:56.870what he was doing particularly in the second episode is39100:25:57.740 --> 00:26:02.550he's clearly doing the ambassador role. And I like that. Cause I thought, oh,39200:26:02.550 --> 00:26:07.190this is a really interesting way of explaining his role in middle earth,39300:26:08.080 --> 00:26:13.070um, because of his half. And no, I thought that was, I really enjoyed that.39400:26:13.190 --> 00:26:17.030We've had a correction from Nancy who is our absolute expert. Um,39500:26:17.080 --> 00:26:20.550so you know, far more expert than I am. Um,39600:26:21.380 --> 00:26:26.310Ronwin and Aron Deere are in tier hared. I was getting a bit kind of map.39700:26:27.150 --> 00:26:30.090Can you get map queasy? Cause it gets swooping over the map.39800:26:30.090 --> 00:26:31.410I couldn't quite follow where they were going,39900:26:31.410 --> 00:26:35.090which she says she thinks is near her ad, which is obviously Southern.40000:26:36.220 --> 00:26:40.680Um, so maybe their, their land is okay though.40100:26:40.730 --> 00:26:42.800It infested with olive fonts maybe.40200:26:43.820 --> 00:26:47.290Oh yeah, my money's on Gander. Sorry Alexandra. I, yeah,40300:26:47.290 --> 00:26:50.890my that's where I'm putting my, my money. It was the, but again,40400:26:50.890 --> 00:26:54.330it could be red herring. Like it's one of those things, but it, for me,40500:26:54.330 --> 00:26:54.810I was like,40600:26:54.810 --> 00:26:58.730this feels a lot like feels a lot like Gander and then it was the whispering to40700:26:58.730 --> 00:27:01.570the fireflies. I was like, okay, that's very clear callback.40800:27:01.570 --> 00:27:05.370I think this is scan. Um, so yeah, that's, that's,40900:27:05.370 --> 00:27:06.490that's what I'm putting my money on.41000:27:07.580 --> 00:27:11.000Or a blue wizard about whom we know not very much,41100:27:11.060 --> 00:27:14.120you always go for the ones about whom, you know, nothing, but.41200:27:14.120 --> 00:27:16.880He says, he says something like man,41300:27:18.670 --> 00:27:23.400when he speaks and I think Ure is the name of, um,41400:27:23.700 --> 00:27:26.480the creator <inaudible> or something like that.41500:27:27.340 --> 00:27:30.990You're very good. If you can, if you can actually interpret what he's saying, I,41600:27:31.020 --> 00:27:35.430I, I should put the captions on for that bit. Uh, Alex,41700:27:35.920 --> 00:27:39.710um, you've also had with us.41800:27:40.910 --> 00:27:44.510Actually love the, the TV show obviously.41900:27:44.650 --> 00:27:48.950And I wanted to come back on the Brun Brun win. Oranger sorry.42000:27:49.460 --> 00:27:52.590That was something I found very clever because for me,42100:27:52.590 --> 00:27:56.230it's showing the evil and so without showing it,42200:27:56.800 --> 00:27:58.180and I think it was a,42300:27:58.250 --> 00:28:02.420a good way of like kind of subtle ish because, well,42400:28:02.420 --> 00:28:03.980I guess we all picked that up,42500:28:03.980 --> 00:28:08.140but it's a good way of showing him without having to go too much into42600:28:09.100 --> 00:28:12.790portraying the actual evil right now, because everybody's looking for him,42700:28:12.790 --> 00:28:15.910but you still have to have him somewhere, even if,42800:28:15.910 --> 00:28:20.910but you can't show it because otherwise the whole gradual quest, uh, is useless.42900:28:20.910 --> 00:28:22.510I guess, if you know exactly where he is.43000:28:22.920 --> 00:28:26.550So I kind of like that and on the acting,43100:28:27.260 --> 00:28:31.030I feel like, I don't know if it's just me, but it's been a while.43200:28:31.030 --> 00:28:35.990I haven't seen actors bring me directly and so vividly43300:28:35.990 --> 00:28:39.310into the whole world. I for, I didn't,43400:28:40.060 --> 00:28:43.910I had to come back for a second when I still get agile space,43500:28:43.980 --> 00:28:48.190I knew it was her immediately. I didn't had a second of like,43600:28:48.370 --> 00:28:50.230who could she be? It was like obvious.43700:28:50.810 --> 00:28:53.830And I think I had that feeling for most of the characters.43800:28:54.200 --> 00:28:57.030So I think they did very well in casting,43900:28:57.160 --> 00:29:02.070in finding actors that kind of look like the older version of44000:29:02.070 --> 00:29:05.230themselves and still are good with the bigger,44100:29:05.230 --> 00:29:07.910I just pick someone that looks like and will do the job.44200:29:07.910 --> 00:29:11.750Somehow people will find it, I guess, but I don't know. They,44300:29:11.750 --> 00:29:15.630they look like them and they also play well. So I think it's kinda, well.44400:29:16.900 --> 00:29:21.590I thought that Nori actually has almost like Elijah wood eyes,44500:29:23.250 --> 00:29:25.910you know, you were saying, so you got you think, yeah,44600:29:25.910 --> 00:29:28.390that's that kind of works. And I was looking at Norie,44700:29:28.390 --> 00:29:32.710she's got these one me as I talk about the eyes of the young gala later.44800:29:33.500 --> 00:29:35.870Like when that first started, I thought, my goodness, this,44900:29:35.870 --> 00:29:39.270this girl is just astonishing, you know.45000:29:39.850 --> 00:29:40.270And.45100:29:40.270 --> 00:29:44.200They've done some very good casting picks, I think. Uh, and.45200:29:44.350 --> 00:29:46.440I was wondering about, about, no,45300:29:46.440 --> 00:29:50.640that he's a Brandy wondering if there's any relation to the Brandy45400:29:51.520 --> 00:29:52.353actually.45500:29:52.640 --> 00:29:53.473Oh yeah.45600:29:59.360 --> 00:30:02.110They've taken a bit of one name and put it with a bit of another.45700:30:02.160 --> 00:30:06.390Exactly. And my money is on Zo as well, but the.45800:30:06.390 --> 00:30:08.470Well, it'd be very funny when, when we come,45900:30:08.480 --> 00:30:12.750we should meet back at the end of the series and have another chat about it once46000:30:12.750 --> 00:30:16.630we've given the whole story arc. Um, and once we've lost all our money,46100:30:16.630 --> 00:30:19.870like we've all been proven wrong or something. Yeah, that's right.46200:30:22.020 --> 00:30:23.790From the beginning. <laugh>.46300:30:24.060 --> 00:30:28.030Yeah. I mean, when I'm watching, throwing out random things like, oh,46400:30:28.030 --> 00:30:30.870maybe that little boy turns out to be the mouse of Sarah. You know,46500:30:30.870 --> 00:30:33.510the one who's got, um, from wins, picks up the other,46600:30:33.710 --> 00:30:36.110cause he's got quite print, you know,46700:30:36.340 --> 00:30:40.350he's got a bad wicked thing and he is a he's he's a man.46800:30:40.350 --> 00:30:44.920So he is gonna be he's doomed. Um, anyway,46900:30:46.000 --> 00:30:48.720probably none of these things will come to pass, but anyway,47000:30:48.720 --> 00:30:51.320it's quite fun to guess. So, um,47100:30:51.320 --> 00:30:55.720some of you've mentioned already some performances, so we've sort of,47200:30:55.870 --> 00:30:59.880most people are quite happy with story choices, cuz absolutely like Rowan,47300:30:59.900 --> 00:31:04.230you do different things when you're making a TV show. Absolutely.47400:31:04.690 --> 00:31:09.350And you put in a few really handsome else, like a on Deere and we are all happy,47500:31:09.370 --> 00:31:11.070you know, why not? Um,47600:31:11.850 --> 00:31:16.630but what about the actual acting performances I I've seen there was, um,47700:31:16.630 --> 00:31:20.340one of the newspapers here gave it like a one star. I thought,47800:31:20.340 --> 00:31:24.420how can you give it a one star? It was like a daily mail or something. My, uh,47900:31:24.420 --> 00:31:29.260family pointed out to me. Definitely. I thought the acting was great.48000:31:29.520 --> 00:31:33.860And I particularly liked, I mean there all, there's nobody default at all.48100:31:34.330 --> 00:31:39.210I particularly liked gala's acting when she said48200:31:39.210 --> 00:31:40.043nothing.48300:31:40.960 --> 00:31:44.990So like in the scenes when Gil Gallad is saying off you go48400:31:45.870 --> 00:31:50.830evils over off you go, you could see within an Elvin restraint,48500:31:50.830 --> 00:31:55.450her utter dis kind of the force of the emotion.48600:31:55.450 --> 00:31:59.930I thought she did a fantastic job. So she gets a shout out for me.48700:31:59.930 --> 00:32:02.690Anybody else wants to give a shout out for some of the performances,48800:32:05.840 --> 00:32:06.673Christina?48900:32:08.030 --> 00:32:13.000Well, I was keeping quiet because I've only almost finished the first episode,49000:32:13.000 --> 00:32:17.320but I thought of all the things I'm still warming up to the serious in general,49100:32:17.320 --> 00:32:19.080like the story and the feel of it.49200:32:19.080 --> 00:32:23.880Because for me the feel I'm still I'm getting used to it because it has a lot of49300:32:23.880 --> 00:32:27.960the modern, serious feel rather than the Lord of the rings movie feel,49400:32:27.960 --> 00:32:31.320which is clearly, it's just a different medium.49500:32:31.530 --> 00:32:35.920So it's going to feel different. But I thought that in terms of acting,49600:32:35.920 --> 00:32:38.870it actually was really, really nice. I really liked it.49700:32:39.560 --> 00:32:44.400Maybe I'm just going to guess maybe the reason they gave the one49800:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.120star is because they didn't get the same feel.49900:32:47.900 --> 00:32:52.640But I think it's more about the fact that it's a50000:32:52.640 --> 00:32:54.320different interpretation. First of all,50100:32:54.320 --> 00:32:56.560you get different actors and different interpretations,50200:32:56.560 --> 00:33:00.080which is always going to feel different. And if you're used to people,50300:33:00.590 --> 00:33:04.040like if you used to L run from the load of the rings films,50400:33:04.350 --> 00:33:08.240you're gonna have to re get reused to the new L Rund.50500:33:09.270 --> 00:33:10.103Yeah.50600:33:10.230 --> 00:33:13.520I completely disagree with the one star review. I would be acting.50700:33:14.410 --> 00:33:17.340I wouldn't be surprised if it's a political choice knowing the newspaper,50800:33:17.680 --> 00:33:22.580you know, they they're having a let's let's get it Amazon, um, possibly,50900:33:22.870 --> 00:33:25.060or they sent along their critic who hates fantasy.51000:33:25.160 --> 00:33:30.140Cuz obviously that would be a disaster if they only like kind of Mike Lee films51100:33:30.140 --> 00:33:33.980or something, you know? Um, yeah. Um,51200:33:34.770 --> 00:33:39.150so what about their creative, um, realization of it?51300:33:40.300 --> 00:33:44.450We know that I think wetter workshop were involved, but they didn't,51400:33:44.450 --> 00:33:49.330they didn't sort of get Peter Jackson along to sort of advise,51500:33:49.330 --> 00:33:52.240but it clearly is owing a lot51600:33:53.760 --> 00:33:58.570architecturally and everything to the original look of the51700:33:58.570 --> 00:34:01.050Lord of the rings trilogy. Um,51800:34:01.050 --> 00:34:05.460but were you happy with the feel of the places and51900:34:06.210 --> 00:34:08.740some of you already said you felt like you were in middle earth.52000:34:09.620 --> 00:34:14.260Anything else you wanna say about costumes, music, uh,52100:34:15.130 --> 00:34:17.860sets locations, Elizabeth,52200:34:18.010 --> 00:34:21.400what did you think your muted.52300:34:24.020 --> 00:34:26.360I'm getting a sign to be muted. Um,52400:34:26.820 --> 00:34:30.360now thank you for asking that question and I'm gonna give a very simple52500:34:30.500 --> 00:34:34.280observation and it, it meets with what you're asking.52600:34:34.390 --> 00:34:35.640That's what drew me.52700:34:36.230 --> 00:34:40.440I was loving it and then I really loved it when I became aware of the music.52800:34:41.260 --> 00:34:44.720And there was a moment where I was like, okay,52900:34:44.780 --> 00:34:49.480I'm really totally into this because the music is very important to me.53000:34:50.500 --> 00:34:54.720And um, uh, and I can't really cite exactly, you know,53100:34:54.720 --> 00:34:58.200when and where that happened. But, um, that,53200:34:58.200 --> 00:35:02.680that kind of linked me to the Peter Jackson films, not continually,53300:35:03.140 --> 00:35:05.000but, um, yeah.53400:35:05.150 --> 00:35:08.480That, so the, the theme music, which you only hear in full,53500:35:08.490 --> 00:35:11.600if you go into the second episode, um, by the way.53600:35:12.130 --> 00:35:13.000So maybe it was.53700:35:13.000 --> 00:35:17.080Then the title sequence isn't run in the first one, um,53800:35:17.090 --> 00:35:21.280is by Howard shore who did the music for Lord of the rings films.53900:35:22.370 --> 00:35:26.760Um, and then the other music is by somebody called,54000:35:26.760 --> 00:35:30.360I think it's Ben NEK. I might not be saying his,54100:35:30.380 --> 00:35:33.600his or her name correctly. Um, but there's,54200:35:33.600 --> 00:35:35.560you can listen to the soundtrack on Spotify,54300:35:35.560 --> 00:35:38.320which we did as we were driving home from our holiday.54400:35:38.420 --> 00:35:42.640And there's some really good, um, music in there.54500:35:42.640 --> 00:35:45.520I particularly liked. I didn't like the scene,54600:35:45.520 --> 00:35:49.840but I like the music when they're going to valor, which looks like death. To me,54700:35:50.050 --> 00:35:54.400it looks like it being, yeah, it looked like that's my problem with it. Um,54800:35:54.980 --> 00:35:57.880but the song that they say they've all got inside them,54900:35:57.880 --> 00:35:59.000they all started singing.55000:35:59.000 --> 00:36:02.400I thought that was beautifully done cuz that tune was played earlier.55100:36:02.970 --> 00:36:07.000So you already prepared. And so when they started singing it,55200:36:07.550 --> 00:36:11.400that was a very magical moment. I thought I did it really nicely though.55300:36:11.400 --> 00:36:15.480I did think glad could have done with a better plan <laugh> than just jumping55400:36:15.480 --> 00:36:20.200off the boat and having to swim back. I did laugh actually.55500:36:20.200 --> 00:36:24.650That was the moment where it broke the, the sort of, yeah, I thought, okay,55600:36:24.650 --> 00:36:29.130that's a bit dat, but anyway, she's an elf. She she's she's good at swimming.55700:36:29.130 --> 00:36:30.010She'll be fine.55800:36:31.400 --> 00:36:36.290Yeah. I was, I will add one other comment again, more general than, uh,55900:36:36.490 --> 00:36:40.890directing at one specific thing. Um, yeah, I did.56000:36:40.890 --> 00:36:45.730I did find it magical. I did, um, the,56100:36:45.730 --> 00:36:50.170the movement of the scenes and you know, what you,56200:36:50.170 --> 00:36:54.490how you were introduced to it, you know, for lack of a better expression. I did,56300:36:54.630 --> 00:36:59.090did find it to like magical, you know, and hopefully you like that.56400:36:59.740 --> 00:37:00.573So.56500:37:01.220 --> 00:37:02.130Because I was.56600:37:02.130 --> 00:37:06.370Gonna be disappointed if it wasn't. Yeah. If I didn't feel moved that way,56700:37:06.800 --> 00:37:08.610I was gonna really be disappointed.56800:37:09.460 --> 00:37:10.490So we just have a, a,56900:37:10.520 --> 00:37:14.690a final little moment on costumes before we sort of do a round up of,57000:37:14.690 --> 00:37:18.490of a out of five stars kind of thing. Um,57100:37:19.610 --> 00:37:21.410somebody's already mentioned, I sort, I'm sorry.57200:37:21.410 --> 00:37:25.720I forget who it was said that they thought the armor was a bit plain.57300:37:26.170 --> 00:37:27.720Um, not quite enough.57400:37:27.840 --> 00:37:31.240You'd have thought they'd had some VIN scripts and you know,57500:37:31.240 --> 00:37:34.320they spend a lot of that on their weapons maybe. Um,57600:37:34.980 --> 00:37:39.760but does anyone have anything they'd like to mention about sort of57700:37:39.980 --> 00:37:44.360the dressing of the characters? I mean, a really strong look is the, um,57800:37:44.860 --> 00:37:49.300the hobbits who all having a terribly bad hair day57900:37:52.550 --> 00:37:54.580or a good hair day. If, if that's,58000:37:54.580 --> 00:37:58.020if you like kind of dreadlocks with acorns,58100:38:00.130 --> 00:38:03.650it's quite fun. I thought, I, I,58200:38:03.990 --> 00:38:08.660the one thing I would say about the Harit is I wish they wouldn't give the women58300:38:09.460 --> 00:38:14.100loads of skirts and trousers kind of pick aside, pick a lane,58400:38:14.750 --> 00:38:15.100um,58500:38:15.100 --> 00:38:19.860because it seems really unnecessary to go around58600:38:19.860 --> 00:38:24.140a great big skirt and then killed it up. That bugged me.58700:38:25.500 --> 00:38:28.500<inaudible> you've got a few. Yeah, I have more.58800:38:29.260 --> 00:38:29.740Question.58900:38:29.740 --> 00:38:34.620Actually, because I remember, but I'm, uh, that, uh, I don't remember the exact.59000:38:34.620 --> 00:38:39.000Phrase that Tokin was using. So the, normally the, uh, the,59100:38:39.000 --> 00:38:43.920the women's warfs are supposed to have beers or there was like a rumor59200:38:43.920 --> 00:38:47.600that they were supposed to have beer. Um, the, the beers,59300:38:47.630 --> 00:38:51.160what was the Tolkin position on that? Do you do, you know,59400:38:51.160 --> 00:38:53.400because I expected them to have beers,59500:38:53.400 --> 00:38:55.560but I knew from the previous that they wouldn't have.59600:38:55.560 --> 00:38:59.800And I thought that would be interesting visual to, to have, uh, yeah,59700:38:59.860 --> 00:39:02.920but maybe it's not even part of the official Canon.59800:39:03.500 --> 00:39:05.000And Nancy might know the answer.59900:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.720I I've got a feeling that is a vague mention of it.60000:39:08.060 --> 00:39:12.160But did you notice that had a little bit of a sideburn going on?60100:39:12.490 --> 00:39:13.600Oh, no, I haven't not.60200:39:13.750 --> 00:39:17.960Yeah. So there's a, there's a nod. She's got like a little beard, so there's.60300:39:17.960 --> 00:39:19.720Stick with it kinda.60400:39:19.720 --> 00:39:24.200Very subtle. She's it doesn't make a difference. You know,60500:39:24.430 --> 00:39:27.080beards is there,60600:39:27.410 --> 00:39:30.640is there a canonical answer on beards or not beards?60700:39:34.350 --> 00:39:36.640Have you got a view on that, Nancy?60800:39:36.790 --> 00:39:41.620Yeah. Can, am I breaking up? Cause I a.60900:39:41.620 --> 00:39:43.900Little bit just carry, carry on though. You're fine again now.61000:39:44.670 --> 00:39:45.820Oh, okay. So61100:39:47.780 --> 00:39:50.590Tolkin did say that. Um,61200:39:50.590 --> 00:39:53.070well he kind of said that there were female doors,61300:39:53.170 --> 00:39:55.270but you didn't see them because he,61400:39:55.270 --> 00:39:58.790they looked like the male doors and they did have beards.61500:39:59.010 --> 00:40:03.590And so that was one of the things that a lot of the fans are were61600:40:03.870 --> 00:40:07.470complaining about because DSA did have like a little bit here,61700:40:07.890 --> 00:40:11.590but in that scene where they're chopping the rocks,61800:40:11.590 --> 00:40:15.230none of the other female dorms had beards.61900:40:15.280 --> 00:40:19.870So I think it is gonna be a sticking port point for true DOF62000:40:20.100 --> 00:40:21.990fans. But I,62100:40:22.100 --> 00:40:26.750I thought the din kingdom was better realized than the Elvin62200:40:26.750 --> 00:40:29.630kingdom. I mean, I62300:40:32.260 --> 00:40:36.830costumes really elaborate and layered and nuanced and62400:40:38.680 --> 00:40:42.880loved and home with the,62500:40:43.010 --> 00:40:45.160we saw the VIN cities from a distance.62600:40:45.160 --> 00:40:49.840Maybe that's why I feel this way because we didn't really get to see,62700:40:49.870 --> 00:40:51.280they were always outside.62800:40:51.730 --> 00:40:56.440We didn't really get to see any structures really close up.62900:40:57.700 --> 00:41:02.680I think VIN city is always looking incredibly drafty <laugh>, you know,63000:41:02.680 --> 00:41:06.480they don't feel like real places. Do they? Whereas the dwarf kingdom,63100:41:06.550 --> 00:41:08.120I really enjoyed seeing the,63200:41:08.120 --> 00:41:12.490the mirrors that were used to bring the light down so they could do agriculture.63300:41:12.560 --> 00:41:15.450They just walk past it. I love that. And you're right.63400:41:15.450 --> 00:41:18.570There was sort of detail there. We should round up our conversation,63500:41:18.570 --> 00:41:20.330just take Elizabeth. Uh,63600:41:20.330 --> 00:41:23.850and I'm gonna ask you for your kind of four out of five vote.63700:41:24.220 --> 00:41:29.210If you could put it, um, in the chat, we can do an overall score from us,63800:41:30.180 --> 00:41:32.970um, from the project Northmore creatives,63900:41:33.430 --> 00:41:36.560Oxford center for fantasy creatives. So, Elizabeth,64000:41:36.560 --> 00:41:39.400what was your little comment you were gonna have there.64100:41:39.970 --> 00:41:44.560So way back when, um, when you were envisioning with all of us on project,64200:41:44.560 --> 00:41:46.600Northmore you put up a post and said, well,64300:41:47.010 --> 00:41:50.240it was way back at the very beginning. What, what are you wondering about?64400:41:50.240 --> 00:41:54.000And it's just like a, you know, pub curiosity question, the,64500:41:54.000 --> 00:41:58.200the dwarf women and the beard, but mainly over and above that,64600:41:58.200 --> 00:42:01.360I'm more interested in the fact that they weren't visible really.64700:42:01.360 --> 00:42:06.240They didn't have a, a role. I think that's more fascinating than, you know,64800:42:06.240 --> 00:42:08.280what they look like basically, um,64900:42:08.280 --> 00:42:12.680which are very nice looking by the way in the, in the new production. Um,65000:42:13.260 --> 00:42:17.120but I, so just, you know, like weird curiosity, like, okay,65100:42:17.120 --> 00:42:21.600I'm gonna look up online and see if I can see any images of a dwarf woman with a65200:42:21.600 --> 00:42:25.880beard. And, um, one creative person did it very nicely.65300:42:26.160 --> 00:42:28.800Actually they had their hair kind of grown, you know,65400:42:28.800 --> 00:42:31.600longer and braided in the front,65500:42:31.830 --> 00:42:36.560like this sort of like a beard, you know, visually like it'd be in front,65600:42:36.560 --> 00:42:40.160but it wasn't really a beard, but it, you know, so who knows what beard means,65700:42:40.160 --> 00:42:40.993right.65800:42:42.350 --> 00:42:44.400Indeed on that poser.65900:42:45.370 --> 00:42:48.520So just while you come up with your we're giving it, uh,66000:42:48.520 --> 00:42:53.440a sort of score out of five stars. Okay. So if you like to, um,66100:42:53.440 --> 00:42:58.000put in your score, we'll have an overall total, but,66200:42:58.130 --> 00:43:01.240um, my husband came up with a summary. I rather liked,66300:43:01.240 --> 00:43:04.000which I thought I'd share with you. So he said, right.66400:43:04.250 --> 00:43:08.760So that means the dwarfs are Scottish.66500:43:10.100 --> 00:43:12.040The hobbits are Irish,66600:43:13.270 --> 00:43:15.250the elves are Welsh.66700:43:16.940 --> 00:43:21.400The men are English and the money is American,66800:43:23.790 --> 00:43:25.270which I thought was a great summary.66900:43:25.450 --> 00:43:29.910Cuz if you actually follow the accents as somebody native to here,67000:43:30.510 --> 00:43:35.310goads a bit Welsh. So it works. Okay.67100:43:36.440 --> 00:43:41.030So let me go through, Oh, it's pretty good.67200:43:41.030 --> 00:43:44.240We got 2, 3, 4.67300:43:45.580 --> 00:43:49.070I would say we're giving it about 4.2 out of five.67400:43:50.360 --> 00:43:55.030Um, so between four and five, which I think Amazon can be quite happy about.67500:43:55.700 --> 00:43:56.190Okay.67600:43:56.190 --> 00:43:59.750And not that they're gonna care cuz there's enough money there to take a hit.67700:43:59.970 --> 00:44:00.870But um,67800:44:01.120 --> 00:44:05.790we seem fairly happy with it and I for one is certainly going to follow it all67900:44:05.790 --> 00:44:10.590the way through. And if some of it makes me laugh, well that's fine.68000:44:10.930 --> 00:44:15.870But mostly I'm just enjoying seeing more images and more,68100:44:15.870 --> 00:44:20.030very clever people, creatively reinterpreting TH's world.68200:44:20.640 --> 00:44:25.030So good. I really hope they carry on and good luck to them. Um,68300:44:25.800 --> 00:44:27.750so my final bet,68400:44:28.500 --> 00:44:32.520the end of the second episode Gilad is about to be scooped up out of the sea.68500:44:33.560 --> 00:44:36.500I'm hoping that that's gonna be a new Manian ship.68600:44:37.710 --> 00:44:42.600I know she doesn't in the book go to new Menor if I'm aware, but maybe she does.68700:44:43.700 --> 00:44:46.570Um, so that's my bit, anybody else got a bit who's on the ship,68800:44:50.140 --> 00:44:50.700Nancy,68900:44:50.700 --> 00:44:55.650have you got a view or she may know Nancy's often got69000:44:55.650 --> 00:44:58.810the inside track anyway. So we'll find out.69100:44:59.080 --> 00:44:59.913I think I.69200:45:02.040 --> 00:45:02.600Don't.69300:45:02.600 --> 00:45:04.320Have the inside track, but I think it's his silver.69400:45:06.400 --> 00:45:10.830Oh, so that would be new Andorian um, in that he was one of the,69500:45:10.930 --> 00:45:15.150the elf friends. Yeah. That's even more specific than, than my,69600:45:16.080 --> 00:45:19.590my punt. Okay. Thank you everyone. I hope you enjoyed that.69700:45:19.760 --> 00:45:23.590We reconvene to have a sort of final kick around,69800:45:24.340 --> 00:45:27.910I suppose it's gonna be like November or something when it finishes. Um,69900:45:28.080 --> 00:45:31.310so we can have a chat and the how it all went.70000:45:32.360 --> 00:45:36.430So thank you very much for joining me this evening. Thank you.70100:45:36.590 --> 00:45:39.470Thank you. Bye bye everybody so much.70200:45:42.340 --> 00:45:43.173That was fun.70300:45:44.520 --> 00:45:46.030If you enjoyed this discussion,70400:45:46.170 --> 00:45:50.710you may like to join us on either one of our in person courses here in Oxford70500:45:50.960 --> 00:45:53.150or come on the, uh,70600:45:53.150 --> 00:45:56.910six week introduction to fantasy writing course,70700:45:56.910 --> 00:46:01.070which starts in October or even if you're further on in your writing journey,70800:46:01.250 --> 00:46:03.670the novel in the year course.70900:46:03.670 --> 00:46:08.670The next one of those starts in January do visit our website to find out71000:46:08.670 --> 00:46:10.830more details. But for the moment,71100:46:11.030 --> 00:46:13.750thank you very much for listening to myth makers.71200:46:21.440 --> 00:46:22.050Thanks.71300:46:22.050 --> 00:46:26.970For listening to mythmakers podcast brought to you by the Oxford center71400:46:26.970 --> 00:46:31.930for fantasy visit Oxford center for fantasy.org to join in the71500:46:31.930 --> 00:46:32.640fun.71600:46:32.640 --> 00:46:37.570Find out about our online courses in person stays in Oxford plus71700:46:37.650 --> 00:46:39.930visit our shop for great gifts.71800:46:40.360 --> 00:46:45.050Tell a friend and subscribe wherever you find your favorite podcasts71900:46:45.130 --> 00:46:45.930worldwide.