LOTR: An Author's Journey - Wrap Up of The Two Towers, Book 3

101:00:04.640 --> 01:00:06.900Hello and welcome to Mythmakers.201:00:07.119 --> 01:00:09.840Mythmakers is the podcast for fantasy fans301:00:09.840 --> 01:00:12.360and fantasy creatives brought to you by the401:00:12.360 --> 01:00:13.800Oxford Centre for Fantasy.501:00:14.260 --> 01:00:15.960My name is Julia Golding.601:00:16.760 --> 01:00:18.180And for those of you who have been701:00:18.180 --> 01:00:21.240following my sidecast on Lord of the Rings,801:00:21.500 --> 01:00:24.160you will realise that we have very recently901:00:24.160 --> 01:00:27.740completed the first book of the Two Towers.1001:00:28.240 --> 01:00:30.380And we thought we would wrap this up1101:00:30.380 --> 01:00:34.200by highlighting some of the favourite bits from1201:00:34.200 --> 01:00:37.080listeners over the last few months when I've1301:00:37.080 --> 01:00:39.800been working on this and put them together1401:00:39.800 --> 01:00:41.860in a little package for you to enjoy.1501:00:42.260 --> 01:00:44.580It's also meant as a taster for those1601:00:44.580 --> 01:00:46.720who haven't yet dipped into the full series1701:00:46.720 --> 01:00:48.700to see the kind of thing I get1801:00:48.700 --> 01:00:50.600up to when I describe what's going on.1901:00:51.140 --> 01:00:54.420So, with no more ado, let us start.2001:00:54.820 --> 01:00:56.880And we begin right at the beginning of2101:00:56.880 --> 01:01:00.000the Two Towers when things have gone awry.2201:01:00.740 --> 01:01:03.180And here I look out, what has gone2301:01:03.180 --> 01:01:05.740wrong with Aragorn and what might be the2401:01:05.740 --> 01:01:09.400reason behind his seeming lapse in leadership?2501:01:11.060 --> 01:01:14.040One thing which I've always puzzled about here,2601:01:14.720 --> 01:01:18.680which is that Aragorn is oddly negligent.2701:01:19.560 --> 01:01:21.940He runs up the hill knowing this is2801:01:21.940 --> 01:01:26.540a dangerous situation, tells Sam, follow me, but2901:01:26.540 --> 01:01:30.160makes no allowances for Hobbit legs, doesn't seem3001:01:30.160 --> 01:01:32.680to notice Sam isn't with him for a3101:01:32.680 --> 01:01:33.640very long time.3201:01:34.240 --> 01:01:35.820It could be that he's just not a3301:01:35.820 --> 01:01:37.260very good leader at this point.3401:01:37.580 --> 01:01:40.440But I was thinking that this feels to3501:01:40.440 --> 01:01:43.940me as though Tolkien is imagining the panic3601:01:43.940 --> 01:01:46.320coming out of this crisis point.3701:01:46.620 --> 01:01:48.820And I don't think it's a panic generated3801:01:48.820 --> 01:01:53.460by the ring, which could be one explanation3901:01:53.460 --> 01:01:54.000for it.4001:01:54.420 --> 01:01:56.260It seems to me it's one of those4101:01:56.260 --> 01:02:01.000fortuitous accidents that the presiding fate of this4201:02:01.000 --> 01:02:03.660world needs to have them scatter at this4301:02:03.660 --> 01:02:05.940point because they all got vital roles to4401:02:05.940 --> 01:02:06.280play.4501:02:06.880 --> 01:02:08.800It's that sense there is a greater plan4601:02:08.800 --> 01:02:09.560beneath it.4701:02:09.919 --> 01:02:12.560And it could be why Aragorn is acting4801:02:12.560 --> 01:02:16.040in an un-Aragorn-like way of not4901:02:16.040 --> 01:02:18.200noticing that he's left Sam behind.5001:02:19.480 --> 01:02:21.240I suppose that gives you the sense that5101:02:21.240 --> 01:02:23.140fate is driving them at this point.5201:02:23.440 --> 01:02:25.600They're not quite in control of their choices.5301:02:27.080 --> 01:02:31.040And also Aragorn is shown to be, I5401:02:31.040 --> 01:02:32.780suppose a little bit unheroic in that he5501:02:32.780 --> 01:02:36.960jumps in shouting Elendil, Elendil, but he's missed5601:02:36.960 --> 01:02:37.480the battle.5701:02:38.040 --> 01:02:42.640So there's a lot of misfiring, misdirection, misunderstandings,5801:02:43.420 --> 01:02:45.920all part of this frenetic activity.5901:02:47.680 --> 01:02:49.880But of course, the blade may be empty6001:02:49.880 --> 01:02:53.600of enemies, but it's not empty of everybody6101:02:53.600 --> 01:02:57.380because he comes upon Boromir lying on his6201:02:57.380 --> 01:02:57.880deathbed.6301:03:00.190 --> 01:03:03.530The language around Boromir begins to change a6401:03:03.530 --> 01:03:03.730bit.6501:03:04.650 --> 01:03:07.690We are moving into the Aragorn register of6601:03:07.690 --> 01:03:11.290heroic deeds and kings and queens, that kind6701:03:11.290 --> 01:03:13.530of world, as opposed to the Hobbit everyday6801:03:13.530 --> 01:03:14.110sense.6901:03:14.950 --> 01:03:19.130They have a moving exchange and that exchange7001:03:19.130 --> 01:03:23.090masks some suspense that Tolkien is slipping in7101:03:23.090 --> 01:03:23.310there.7201:03:23.770 --> 01:03:26.110The suspense about which Hobbits have been taken.7301:03:26.870 --> 01:03:28.670If we remember the end of The Fellowship7401:03:28.670 --> 01:03:33.070of the Ring, we know, but the Aragorn,7501:03:33.410 --> 01:03:35.150Gimli and Legolas don't know.7601:03:35.350 --> 01:03:37.590So it makes their decision even harder.7701:03:40.120 --> 01:03:43.900After Boromir is allowed his sort of grandeur7801:03:43.900 --> 01:03:46.040of passing in that he makes his confession,7901:03:46.320 --> 01:03:47.860he sort of puts things as right as8001:03:47.860 --> 01:03:49.180he can at that point.8101:03:49.640 --> 01:03:51.640So he ends up as a hero rather8201:03:51.640 --> 01:03:52.200than a villain.8301:03:53.700 --> 01:03:55.600Aragorn is given a brief soliloquy.8401:03:55.720 --> 01:03:57.720It does feel like something from a stage8501:03:57.720 --> 01:04:04.060convention where he's lamenting the fault that he8601:04:04.060 --> 01:04:07.200has committed by making mistakes.8701:04:08.560 --> 01:04:12.960I suppose here we are reminded of the8801:04:12.960 --> 01:04:17.480sort of heraldic speeches of Arthurian knights, those8901:04:17.480 --> 01:04:18.320kinds of things.9001:04:19.120 --> 01:04:25.300So it is quite a stage scene with9101:04:25.300 --> 01:04:28.960Boromir lying surrounded by the bodies of his9201:04:28.960 --> 01:04:29.280foes.9301:04:29.380 --> 01:04:31.300It's a sort of end of Hamlet feel9401:04:31.300 --> 01:04:31.840to it.9501:04:32.560 --> 01:04:35.000So that could be going on somewhere in9601:04:35.000 --> 01:04:36.320the back of Tolkien's mind.9701:04:38.140 --> 01:04:40.760Legolas here is the one who has the9801:04:40.760 --> 01:04:45.180idea, because Aragorn is flummoxed.9901:04:45.740 --> 01:04:49.240He's hesitating and Legolas is the one with10001:04:49.240 --> 01:04:49.700the plan.10101:04:50.440 --> 01:04:54.460He says that they must bury Boromir or10201:04:54.460 --> 01:04:56.680do his funeral rites and then follow.10301:04:57.220 --> 01:04:59.940And he sums it up as, let us10401:04:59.940 --> 01:05:01.560do first what we must do.10501:05:01.980 --> 01:05:03.040So very sensible.10601:05:05.870 --> 01:05:08.450And of course, a big part of the10701:05:08.450 --> 01:05:12.610enjoyment of Two Towers is encountering the culture10801:05:12.610 --> 01:05:13.550of Rohan.10901:05:14.170 --> 01:05:17.170And here we have the beginning of that11001:05:17.170 --> 01:05:21.050relationship between what's left of the Fellowship arriving11101:05:21.050 --> 01:05:23.030to meet the riders of Rohan.11201:05:23.430 --> 01:05:25.750And here I have a little description of11301:05:25.750 --> 01:05:29.730how Tolkien introduces us to this marvellous horse11401:05:29.730 --> 01:05:30.830mad culture.11501:05:34.040 --> 01:05:35.980We have heard of this culture before.11601:05:36.200 --> 01:05:38.700If we cast our mind back to the11701:05:38.700 --> 01:05:40.240Council of Elrond, it was one of the11801:05:40.240 --> 01:05:41.420details in that.11901:05:42.000 --> 01:05:44.220Gandalf was telling his story.12001:05:44.400 --> 01:05:46.020So we've had a bit of an introduction.12101:05:47.500 --> 01:05:50.440But here we get a potted history, like12201:05:50.440 --> 01:05:52.140a couple of lines about their history.12301:05:53.420 --> 01:05:56.140He calls them true-hearted and bold.12401:05:56.520 --> 01:06:00.660And obviously, their culture is the horse culture.12501:06:00.660 --> 01:06:03.860And they have songs rather than books.12601:06:04.480 --> 01:06:07.000Again, this all chimes with the Anglo-Saxon12701:06:07.000 --> 01:06:07.620world, really.12801:06:08.660 --> 01:06:12.580And he calls them children of men, i12901:06:12.580 --> 01:06:14.780.e. they're from younger days.13001:06:15.340 --> 01:06:18.320This reminds me a bit of the description13101:06:18.320 --> 01:06:21.440of Arthur's court in Sir Gawain and the13201:06:21.440 --> 01:06:23.840Green Knight, where the court is described as13301:06:23.840 --> 01:06:24.720childlike.13401:06:26.890 --> 01:06:27.950Interesting adjective.13501:06:28.210 --> 01:06:30.770But I think it is trying to sense13601:06:30.770 --> 01:06:33.910that the idea here is that they are13701:06:33.910 --> 01:06:39.490people from an earlier time, the beginnings of13801:06:39.490 --> 01:06:40.450culture.13901:06:41.330 --> 01:06:43.050He mentions that they are akin to the14001:06:43.050 --> 01:06:43.750Bardings.14101:06:44.330 --> 01:06:47.370That's the people around Lake-Town, that area.14201:06:47.950 --> 01:06:50.970And Bjornings, Bjorn, the shape-changer in the14301:06:50.970 --> 01:06:51.150woods.14401:06:51.250 --> 01:06:52.310So they come from the north.14501:06:52.390 --> 01:06:53.430That's where they've come from.14601:06:54.930 --> 01:06:58.110And they also refer here to the rumour14701:06:58.110 --> 01:06:59.890that was repeated, I think it's at the14801:06:59.890 --> 01:07:03.270Council of Elrond, that they send horses in14901:07:03.270 --> 01:07:05.470tribute to Mordor.15001:07:06.290 --> 01:07:07.730And this is one of those questions that's15101:07:07.730 --> 01:07:09.770going to be aired in this chapter.15201:07:10.610 --> 01:07:13.650And Aragorn stands with Boromir by rejecting the15301:07:13.650 --> 01:07:13.990rumour.15401:07:14.170 --> 01:07:15.830And we soon learn that he actually has15501:07:15.830 --> 01:07:20.870deep knowledge, having ridden with the riders earlier15601:07:20.870 --> 01:07:21.750on in his life.15701:07:22.690 --> 01:07:25.890We get the wonderful arrival of the riders15801:07:25.890 --> 01:07:26.610of Rohan.15901:07:27.210 --> 01:07:32.750Note here that Tolkien is so much thinking16001:07:32.750 --> 01:07:36.410about the horses in association with Rohan that16101:07:36.410 --> 01:07:39.030the people are described pretty much like horses.16201:07:39.530 --> 01:07:41.670The men that rode them matched them well,16301:07:41.770 --> 01:07:44.730matched the horses, tall and long-limbed, their16401:07:44.730 --> 01:07:47.890hair flaxen pale flowed under the light helms16501:07:47.890 --> 01:07:50.690and streamed in long braids behind them.16601:07:51.130 --> 01:07:52.730Their faces were stern and keen.16701:07:52.990 --> 01:07:54.390So they have manes too.16801:07:55.970 --> 01:07:57.730It's just a bit of fun description.16901:07:58.650 --> 01:08:01.310I love the drama of this moment where17001:08:01.310 --> 01:08:04.590the three are hidden by their cloaks and17101:08:04.590 --> 01:08:06.370they're not spotted until they stand up.17201:08:06.970 --> 01:08:08.790And I think when you think of the17301:08:08.790 --> 01:08:12.150film version, they pretty much took the stage17401:08:12.150 --> 01:08:15.270directions from the book and transposed immediately into17501:08:15.270 --> 01:08:15.670the film.17601:08:16.270 --> 01:08:17.570So I can't help, as much as I17701:08:17.570 --> 01:08:19.790try and get rid of thinking about the17801:08:19.790 --> 01:08:22.490film, I can't help but think of the17901:08:22.490 --> 01:08:26.270choreography of the horses sort of turning around18001:08:26.270 --> 01:08:30.050and spinning in a circle and ending up18101:08:30.050 --> 01:08:33.090with the spears pointing at the interlopers.18201:08:33.750 --> 01:08:35.850It was well done by the stud riders.18301:08:37.250 --> 01:08:39.090But Tolkien got there first.18401:08:39.130 --> 01:08:40.070So they're honouring Tolkien.18501:08:43.220 --> 01:08:47.360Moving away from the Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas18601:08:47.360 --> 01:08:51.200grouping, we're going back to the hobbits now.18701:08:51.960 --> 01:08:53.420And Pippin has been a bit of a18801:08:53.420 --> 01:08:57.120dead weight in some ways, comic relief in18901:08:57.120 --> 01:08:57.680the fellowship.19001:08:58.100 --> 01:09:00.820And now he comes into his own and19101:09:00.820 --> 01:09:02.840we look at that chapter where Pippin steps19201:09:02.840 --> 01:09:05.300forward and becomes a hero we always knew19301:09:05.300 --> 01:09:05.980he would be.19401:09:09.010 --> 01:09:11.450What I find interesting in this chapter about19501:09:11.450 --> 01:09:14.210Pippin, or one of the many things, is19601:09:14.210 --> 01:09:17.190how he goes from passive regret to taking19701:09:17.190 --> 01:09:17.690action.19801:09:18.490 --> 01:09:21.950And the passive regret is characterised by him19901:09:21.950 --> 01:09:24.130thinking of himself as a piece of luggage20001:09:24.130 --> 01:09:26.790that is being sort of carried around by20101:09:26.790 --> 01:09:28.750other people awaiting collection.20201:09:29.790 --> 01:09:32.150Now, the idea of luggage is a very20301:09:32.150 --> 01:09:38.79020th century Edwardian railway idea, which fits with20401:09:38.790 --> 01:09:41.110the hobbit world, which does feel more modern20501:09:41.110 --> 01:09:42.710than many of the other cultures.20601:09:43.430 --> 01:09:44.890So it fits with the world of the20701:09:44.890 --> 01:09:49.630hobbits, because you can't imagine orcs having concierges20801:09:49.630 --> 01:09:50.510and luggage.20901:09:51.210 --> 01:09:53.330So it's part of the big gap between21001:09:53.330 --> 01:09:55.010him and the people who are holding him21101:09:55.010 --> 01:09:55.390hostage.21201:09:56.050 --> 01:09:58.030He's sort of seeing himself as other people21301:09:58.030 --> 01:09:59.710have seen him as he shouldn't have been21401:09:59.710 --> 01:10:00.230there.21501:10:00.850 --> 01:10:02.670He's a fish out of water very clearly.21601:10:03.590 --> 01:10:05.650But one of the things all the hobbits21701:10:05.650 --> 01:10:07.930share in common is once they reach that21801:10:07.930 --> 01:10:09.650point, they bounce back.21901:10:10.350 --> 01:10:13.830And he bounces back by taking advantage of22001:10:13.830 --> 01:10:14.750orc politics.22101:10:16.170 --> 01:10:18.710So this is the second point I wanted22201:10:18.710 --> 01:10:20.530to bring out is here we actually get22301:10:20.530 --> 01:10:24.310behind the doors, the closed doors of orcs.22401:10:24.750 --> 01:10:27.170If you think about the fights to this22501:10:27.170 --> 01:10:31.610point in Moria, we never really understood much22601:10:31.610 --> 01:10:33.090about the individual orcs.22701:10:33.190 --> 01:10:36.150Here they are named, we understand their factions,22801:10:37.330 --> 01:10:39.030we understand their politics.22901:10:40.530 --> 01:10:42.210So we've got three main factions.23001:10:43.810 --> 01:10:46.050We've got the orcs that have come down23101:10:46.050 --> 01:10:48.530from the mines to avenge their leader.23201:10:49.490 --> 01:10:55.210We've got the Mordor orcs and Grishnak is23301:10:55.210 --> 01:10:55.730their leader.23401:10:56.130 --> 01:10:59.010And we have the Isengard orcs who call23501:10:59.010 --> 01:11:01.990themselves the Uruk-hai and Ugluk is their23601:11:01.990 --> 01:11:02.370leader.23701:11:03.550 --> 01:11:05.630So remember that this is written at the23801:11:05.630 --> 01:11:09.750time of war, where the allies were up23901:11:09.750 --> 01:11:14.350against uneasy alliances between, one day they shifted,24001:11:14.670 --> 01:11:17.510but the Russians at one point until they24101:11:17.510 --> 01:11:21.230swapped sides, the Germans, the Italians and so24201:11:21.230 --> 01:11:21.450on.24301:11:21.870 --> 01:11:24.630You can see in the back of Tolkien's24401:11:24.630 --> 01:11:26.490mind that he is reflecting on the fact24501:11:26.490 --> 01:11:28.510that you're not usually just facing one foe24601:11:28.510 --> 01:11:29.310with one agenda.24701:11:29.510 --> 01:11:31.250You're facing many with many agendas.24801:11:31.770 --> 01:11:34.070The Japanese as well, of course, in that24901:11:34.070 --> 01:11:34.250war.25001:11:34.730 --> 01:11:38.450We get a snatch of black speech and25101:11:38.450 --> 01:11:40.430a hint of their culture because obviously for25201:11:40.430 --> 01:11:43.550Tolkien, cultures start with language.25301:11:44.630 --> 01:11:48.530But fortunately, because you have the different factions,25401:11:48.810 --> 01:11:51.470they lapse into using ordinary language.25501:11:53.030 --> 01:11:54.710And so Pippin is able to follow the25601:11:54.710 --> 01:11:55.250debate.25701:11:56.170 --> 01:11:57.610I just want to underline at this point,25801:11:57.710 --> 01:11:59.870if we're thinking about the author's journey, just25901:11:59.870 --> 01:12:04.350how useful some version of common speech is.26001:12:04.750 --> 01:12:06.930Unless you go the Douglas Adams route of26101:12:06.930 --> 01:12:10.850having a Babelfish or a spell to translate26201:12:10.850 --> 01:12:14.510things, you need to make the fact that26301:12:14.510 --> 01:12:18.690people can communicate less of a burden.26401:12:19.130 --> 01:12:20.870You don't want to always be going through26501:12:20.870 --> 01:12:21.710translation.26601:12:22.690 --> 01:12:24.230It's very important for fantasy.26701:12:24.810 --> 01:12:26.270So if you're writing a story where people26801:12:26.270 --> 01:12:28.950have different languages, find some way of dealing26901:12:28.950 --> 01:12:30.310with that so it's not a bore.27001:12:31.050 --> 01:12:33.070Unless, of course, the point is that your27101:12:33.070 --> 01:12:35.350character can't understand what's going on around them.27201:12:35.730 --> 01:12:37.410But I wouldn't hang on in that position27301:12:37.410 --> 01:12:38.030for too long.27401:12:41.120 --> 01:12:42.460When you're reading Lord of the Rings, you27501:12:42.460 --> 01:12:46.240cannot be ignorant of the beauty of the27601:12:46.240 --> 01:12:48.260language that he uses.27701:12:48.440 --> 01:12:50.580It's just the most marvellous resident stuff.27801:12:51.520 --> 01:12:55.760And in this chapter, I celebrated how Tolkien27901:12:55.760 --> 01:13:00.000dips into almost Churchillian language for Gandalf on28001:13:00.000 --> 01:13:00.620his return.28101:13:00.780 --> 01:13:02.920So let's all enjoy a bit of Tolkien28201:13:02.920 --> 01:13:04.520writing at his most eloquent.28301:13:07.610 --> 01:13:09.710This chapter is full of the most wonderful28401:13:09.710 --> 01:13:10.430phrases.28501:13:10.910 --> 01:13:13.070He goes on to say, Be merry, we28601:13:13.070 --> 01:13:16.290meet again at the turn of the tide.28701:13:17.030 --> 01:13:19.510So we are in a pivotal point in28801:13:19.510 --> 01:13:21.490this story, and Gandalf is telling us we28901:13:21.490 --> 01:13:21.690are.29001:13:22.170 --> 01:13:23.210This is the fight back.29101:13:23.970 --> 01:13:27.730So in terms of the Second World War,29201:13:28.070 --> 01:13:31.650this is what happens after Dunkirk hits the29301:13:31.650 --> 01:13:35.630next few years, the arrival of America in29401:13:35.630 --> 01:13:36.910the war, that kind of thing.29501:13:37.790 --> 01:13:39.330So we're not at the end, but we're29601:13:39.330 --> 01:13:41.210at that point where it begins to push29701:13:41.210 --> 01:13:42.130back the other way.29801:13:43.150 --> 01:13:46.230Gimli in this chapter is really hung up29901:13:46.230 --> 01:13:50.670on getting it wrong about thinking Gandalf was30001:13:50.670 --> 01:13:51.070Saruman.30101:13:52.590 --> 01:13:55.770But Gandalf has some words of comfort for30201:13:55.770 --> 01:13:56.170him here.30301:13:56.230 --> 01:13:58.290He says, Indeed, I am Saruman.30401:13:58.910 --> 01:14:01.210Saruman as he should have been, because he30501:14:01.210 --> 01:14:03.110has taken over the status of the white,30601:14:03.630 --> 01:14:06.450which is more than just a badge of30701:14:06.450 --> 01:14:09.970the head of the order of wizards.30801:14:10.150 --> 01:14:13.010It is actually a kind of being which30901:14:13.010 --> 01:14:15.270Saruman has broken away from by wanting to31001:14:15.270 --> 01:14:16.970be Saruman of many colors.31101:14:18.250 --> 01:14:20.130And Gandalf goes on to say, I have31201:14:20.130 --> 01:14:22.990forgotten much that I thought I knew, and31301:14:22.990 --> 01:14:26.330learned again much that I had forgotten, which31401:14:26.330 --> 01:14:27.890in itself sounds like a riddle.31501:14:28.590 --> 01:14:31.310So I said the theme of this chapter31601:14:31.310 --> 01:14:32.690was all about puzzles.31701:14:32.690 --> 01:14:35.650What we discover here is that Gandalf is31801:14:35.650 --> 01:14:37.570the biggest puzzle of them all.31901:14:37.690 --> 01:14:40.270We've been led not to answering the question32001:14:40.270 --> 01:14:42.230about where Merry and Pippin are.32101:14:42.930 --> 01:14:45.830It's actually who Gandalf is and what role32201:14:45.830 --> 01:14:47.790he has to play is the real puzzle.32301:14:49.210 --> 01:14:54.750Though that's not entirely answered, because the real32401:14:54.750 --> 01:14:57.810answer lies in the world beyond Middle Earth,32501:14:58.150 --> 01:15:00.810the world of the gods and Iluvatar and32601:15:00.810 --> 01:15:04.510things which a Middle Earth story doesn't really32701:15:04.510 --> 01:15:06.050answer, but we only sense.32801:15:06.750 --> 01:15:08.670We get lots of other kinds of answers32901:15:08.670 --> 01:15:08.990though.33001:15:10.090 --> 01:15:11.530And the first one of those is how33101:15:11.530 --> 01:15:14.610Gandalf has kept up with what's been going33201:15:14.610 --> 01:15:14.990on.33301:15:15.730 --> 01:15:19.290And the traces, the interweaving that we mentioned33401:15:19.290 --> 01:15:22.470in earlier chapters begins to, you know, the33501:15:22.470 --> 01:15:23.790knot is tied off on them.33601:15:24.130 --> 01:15:26.950We get to see that the eagle that33701:15:26.950 --> 01:15:28.910Legolas saw on a number of occasions was33801:15:28.910 --> 01:15:30.890indeed sent by Gandalf.33901:15:31.370 --> 01:15:33.190But when you have a character who comes34001:15:33.190 --> 01:15:35.790in like this, who is so powerful, you34101:15:35.790 --> 01:15:37.250don't want to make them Superman.34201:15:37.670 --> 01:15:40.390You don't want to give them too much34301:15:40.390 --> 01:15:40.750power.34401:15:40.870 --> 01:15:42.730They have to have kryptonite to make them34501:15:42.730 --> 01:15:43.170work.34601:15:44.010 --> 01:15:46.130And so Gandalf knows a lot, but he34701:15:46.130 --> 01:15:48.530also doesn't know some things.34801:15:49.550 --> 01:15:53.350He is able to sense where the ring34901:15:53.350 --> 01:15:53.630is.35001:15:54.010 --> 01:15:56.170The ring has now passed beyond my help.35101:15:56.830 --> 01:15:58.710But he didn't know about Sam, for example.35201:16:00.390 --> 01:16:04.450He can see how a sore trial it35301:16:04.450 --> 01:16:08.390was for Boromir, but he didn't know that35401:16:08.390 --> 01:16:12.350that happened to Boromir until Aragorn tells him.35501:16:12.930 --> 01:16:15.150Doing this audacious move, think how audacious it35601:16:15.150 --> 01:16:17.570is to bring back someone from the dead,35701:16:17.670 --> 01:16:20.050which is basically what has happened to Gandalf35801:16:20.050 --> 01:16:20.590here.35901:16:21.190 --> 01:16:23.290Not quite dead because he's not quite human,36001:16:23.290 --> 01:16:25.110but that is the effect.36101:16:26.490 --> 01:16:28.770It is very bold and very brave to36201:16:28.770 --> 01:16:29.330do this.36301:16:30.070 --> 01:16:34.570But it isn't him riding on a white36401:16:34.570 --> 01:16:38.850charger to sweep all before him with some36501:16:38.850 --> 01:16:39.510magic spell.36601:16:39.790 --> 01:16:42.290He has to come and enter in the36701:16:42.290 --> 01:16:43.470thick of it again.36801:16:43.890 --> 01:16:46.450He has to get down to the granular36901:16:46.450 --> 01:16:48.010level of dealing with people.37001:16:48.710 --> 01:17:01.090Otherwise, the answer37101:17:01.090 --> 01:17:02.970to the question of how that tide is37201:17:02.970 --> 01:17:03.730being turned.37301:17:05.640 --> 01:17:10.280And finally, in our selection of clips, we37401:17:10.280 --> 01:17:15.040return to Rohan and we meet the people37501:17:15.040 --> 01:17:17.619of Rohan in a much better place where37601:17:17.619 --> 01:17:22.099they have overcome the poison of Wormtongue.37701:17:22.720 --> 01:17:24.440And here we have a celebration of that37801:17:24.440 --> 01:17:27.620culture in how its youth and age come37901:17:27.620 --> 01:17:30.620together to form the bond that actually takes38001:17:30.620 --> 01:17:33.160them all the way to the fields of38101:17:33.160 --> 01:17:34.320the Battle of Pelennor.38201:17:36.650 --> 01:17:38.510So I mentioned that we have a youth38301:17:38.510 --> 01:17:40.970and age theme running through this chapter.38401:17:41.510 --> 01:17:43.830It comes to a head when Éomer comes38501:17:43.830 --> 01:17:48.330in because he is the young man offering38601:17:48.330 --> 01:17:50.110allegiance to the old man.38701:17:51.370 --> 01:17:54.350Éomer coming forward and offering his allegiance, an38801:17:54.350 --> 01:17:56.890act which is copied by all the other38901:17:56.890 --> 01:18:02.930warriors during this chapter, reasserts the ancient king39001:18:02.930 --> 01:18:05.190at the top and the youth coming to39101:18:05.190 --> 01:18:06.490support and to take over.39201:18:06.730 --> 01:18:10.550And this is take over when the time39301:18:10.550 --> 01:18:12.430comes, because he's named as Éomer.39401:18:13.010 --> 01:18:16.610But we also get Wormtongue trying to use39501:18:16.610 --> 01:18:18.630that youth and age to unpick it.39601:18:19.050 --> 01:18:20.090That's what he's been doing.39701:18:20.530 --> 01:18:21.790He's been saying, you're too old for all39801:18:21.790 --> 01:18:22.210of this.39901:18:22.550 --> 01:18:23.670And that is his argument.40001:18:23.890 --> 01:18:27.630He's saying, you must put your feet up.40101:18:28.450 --> 01:18:30.290They're trying to lure you to your death.40201:18:31.070 --> 01:18:32.710That's the kind of poison.40301:18:33.010 --> 01:18:34.530You can see how he's been feeding this40401:18:34.530 --> 01:18:36.670poison to Theoden.40501:18:37.470 --> 01:18:39.050But it's too late.40601:18:40.110 --> 01:18:43.690Grímr's poison is now leaving Theoden.40701:18:44.790 --> 01:18:47.930And what we get here is the moment40801:18:47.930 --> 01:18:52.290when aged realises it isn't so old.40901:18:52.890 --> 01:18:56.690And the decision point is, will you not41001:18:56.690 --> 01:18:57.670take the sword?41101:18:58.410 --> 01:19:01.230And being reminded of the strength of his41201:19:01.230 --> 01:19:03.670youth and the fact that his best days41301:19:03.670 --> 01:19:05.670are behind him, he's still got it in41401:19:05.670 --> 01:19:05.950him.41501:19:06.450 --> 01:19:09.570Theoden turns into the warrior king at that41601:19:09.570 --> 01:19:11.130point when he takes the sword and we41701:19:11.130 --> 01:19:13.710get another little poem.41801:19:14.390 --> 01:19:16.450Here it's got the hint of the alliteration.41901:19:16.690 --> 01:19:19.690Arise now, arise, riders of Theoden.42001:19:19.790 --> 01:19:22.250Can you see the R sound?42101:19:22.470 --> 01:19:24.070Arise, arise, riders.42201:19:25.190 --> 01:19:27.450Dire deeds awake, deedee.42301:19:27.730 --> 01:19:29.450Dark is to eastward.42401:19:30.330 --> 01:19:33.390Let the horse be bridled, horn be sounded.42501:19:33.670 --> 01:19:38.810That's got H sounds combining the two parts42601:19:38.810 --> 01:19:40.430of that literative verse.42701:19:41.010 --> 01:19:42.750Forth aeolingas.42801:19:44.070 --> 01:19:49.870That little ditty there, little war cry, is42901:19:49.870 --> 01:19:53.150probably the most Old English style poem actually43001:19:53.150 --> 01:19:55.890in this section because of the alliteration.43101:19:57.710 --> 01:19:59.930And in response, we get one of the43201:19:59.930 --> 01:20:04.090first little snatches of Old English in this43301:20:04.090 --> 01:20:07.150refrain, westu Theoden hal, which is like a43401:20:07.150 --> 01:20:14.030kind of greeting or praise phrase, which Aema43501:20:14.030 --> 01:20:17.410says, never again shall it be said, Gandalf,43601:20:17.490 --> 01:20:18.890that you come only with grief.43701:20:19.010 --> 01:20:21.510So it's pushing back on all the things43801:20:21.510 --> 01:20:23.450that Wormtongue has been saying.43901:20:26.140 --> 01:20:28.320I hope you've enjoyed following me through this44001:20:28.320 --> 01:20:30.760first part of The Two Towers.44101:20:31.100 --> 01:20:33.460And we've already made a little start on44201:20:33.460 --> 01:20:36.440the second part, that's book four, where we44301:20:36.440 --> 01:20:39.520have rejoined Frodo and Sam and, of course,44401:20:40.180 --> 01:20:40.820met Gollum.44501:20:40.920 --> 01:20:42.520So please do come and join me for44601:20:42.520 --> 01:20:45.540further sidecasts as we read our way through44701:20:45.540 --> 01:20:46.620The Lord of the Rings.44801:20:47.000 --> 01:20:48.480Thank you so much for listening.