Love Is in the Air: Romance and Fantasy

100:00:04.580 --> 00:00:07.119Hello and welcome to Mythmakers.200:00:07.540 --> 00:00:12.280Mythmakers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy creatives brought to300:00:12.280 --> 00:00:14.500you by the Oxford Centre for Fantasy.400:00:15.000 --> 00:00:21.020My name is Julia Golding and today we are in a romantic mood because we500:00:21.020 --> 00:00:26.260are fast approaching Valentine's Day and I wanted to have a look at the theme600:00:26.260 --> 00:00:29.300of romance in fantasy.700:00:30.200 --> 00:00:35.480So recently there's been the phenomenon of the romanticy and it's sort of800:00:35.480 --> 00:00:36.900reached ridiculous heights.900:00:37.100 --> 00:00:42.400It's like the main thing published by a lot of fantasy publishers and one of1000:00:42.400 --> 00:00:49.320these sort of titles that really dominated is Rebecca Yarrow's The Fourth Wing1100:00:49.320 --> 00:00:51.680and I think there's a second part as well.1200:00:52.380 --> 00:00:55.680She is following in a tradition that already existed.1300:00:55.840 --> 00:00:59.700She didn't invent the genre but publishers have sort of packaged it as a1400:00:59.700 --> 00:01:00.500particular thing.1500:01:01.000 --> 00:01:03.459So why is romanticy so popular at the moment?1600:01:03.980 --> 00:01:12.080Well, it is a blend of the existing love for the sort of kingdom love1700:01:12.080 --> 00:01:17.060affair, the sort of elf prince, human woman.1800:01:17.520 --> 00:01:17.980Sarah J.1900:01:18.280 --> 00:01:22.800Mars has done quite a few books in this area where you get a similar2000:01:22.800 --> 00:01:29.100thing but her romance originally in the 2010s didn't step into quite so2100:01:29.100 --> 00:01:30.140explicit territory.2200:01:30.600 --> 00:01:35.860What happened with Fourth Wing and why there was a new frisson of interest is2300:01:35.860 --> 00:01:40.660that it sort of leaned more into a more explicit depiction of sex.2400:01:42.160 --> 00:01:47.700There is a readership out there, particularly sort of young women who came up2500:01:47.700 --> 00:01:53.840through the Harry Potter reading, The Hunger Games, then Twilight and going on2600:01:53.840 --> 00:01:57.260to the weirdly stepping sideways into the Fifty Shades.2700:01:57.600 --> 00:02:02.800There is a sort of big readership out there for this and romance is a2800:02:02.800 --> 00:02:07.500massive, massive part of the income stream for many publishers.2900:02:08.020 --> 00:02:14.380People will read romances, romanticism one after the other, often as e-books,3000:02:14.960 --> 00:02:19.200though Fourth Wing, of course, is a big paperback book as well.3100:02:20.000 --> 00:02:25.980So, they have found a female audience really, I would say.3200:02:26.080 --> 00:02:29.720I'm not saying that men don't read it as well but when you think of3300:02:29.720 --> 00:02:34.400a lot of the sort of hard-edge sci-fi or classic sci-fi, it3400:02:34.400 --> 00:02:37.840doesn't tend to cater so much for a female taste or a female eye.3500:02:38.500 --> 00:02:43.220Romanticism is doing that and women are more book buyers, more readers than3600:02:43.220 --> 00:02:46.260men, so market forces are also behind it.3700:02:47.500 --> 00:02:50.020And of course, the thing that you get is the exotic.3800:02:50.780 --> 00:02:53.340There is plenty of sub-genres in romance.3900:02:53.460 --> 00:02:56.480If you just want to find out how many there are, go and look at4000:02:56.480 --> 00:03:03.340some sort of book aggregate system but you get things like Harem romances and4100:03:03.340 --> 00:03:08.400Arab Sheikh romances and Regency romances and so on and so on and so on,4200:03:08.420 --> 00:03:09.380pirate romances.4300:03:10.020 --> 00:03:15.440So, it fits well into this understanding that the background is going to be4400:03:15.440 --> 00:03:22.420like this set dressing for a story which is powered mainly by a love story.4500:03:23.080 --> 00:03:25.080Now, there's a lot else going on in Fourth Wing.4600:03:25.580 --> 00:03:30.420It's also a coming-of-age story, a fairly sort of typical idea of the4700:03:30.420 --> 00:03:36.940unregarded character who finds her power through discovering her skill as a4800:03:36.940 --> 00:03:37.560dragon rider.4900:03:37.800 --> 00:03:45.580But also, there's a sort of rebellion, that kind of edgy thing where there's a5000:03:45.580 --> 00:03:46.860system that needs to be corrected.5100:03:47.020 --> 00:03:48.320So, there's a lot of plot as well.5200:03:48.640 --> 00:03:55.120So, very enjoyable but you have to also be ready for a certain sexual,5300:03:55.660 --> 00:03:59.820certainly not younger YA sexual advance in it.5400:04:00.420 --> 00:04:03.460So, romanticy has found its readership.5500:04:04.520 --> 00:04:09.660But if we dig back through where this all came from, I remember reading Anne5600:04:09.660 --> 00:04:10.260McCathery.5700:04:10.480 --> 00:04:12.240That's the first dragon rider story.5800:04:13.360 --> 00:04:18.120She has a series called the Chronicles of Pern, first one being Dragonflight,5900:04:18.540 --> 00:04:19.920which I loved as a teenager.6000:04:20.180 --> 00:04:21.820Found it in the school library, I think.6100:04:22.340 --> 00:04:25.720And I went back when romanticy sort of revived.6200:04:25.840 --> 00:04:30.500I went back and read it and discovered that there, the sexual mores of that6300:04:30.500 --> 00:04:33.720world are very much of that era.6400:04:33.920 --> 00:04:38.180I think it was, let me just check here, it was published in 1969.6500:04:39.940 --> 00:04:40.440There we go.6600:04:41.420 --> 00:04:44.080So, that's 56 years ago.6700:04:45.000 --> 00:04:50.920And what we have here is a, I would say that the main female character6800:04:50.920 --> 00:04:52.220is living in like a harem.6900:04:53.000 --> 00:04:55.920So, she has all these dragon riders around her.7000:04:55.980 --> 00:04:57.520It's like a Queen Bee idea.7100:04:58.280 --> 00:04:59.060It's very 60s.7200:04:59.740 --> 00:05:05.320So, you can see that the romance element in this fantasy is following the sort7300:05:05.320 --> 00:05:08.460of ideas of what is sexually exciting in each decade.7400:05:09.280 --> 00:05:11.540I found it quite difficult to read going back to it.7500:05:11.640 --> 00:05:18.100What I found exciting and read without comment as a teenager, I now thought,7600:05:18.160 --> 00:05:20.500oh, these relationships are all a bit skewed.7700:05:21.320 --> 00:05:23.940So, I didn't enjoy it very much when I went back to it.7800:05:24.680 --> 00:05:32.240But there are, of course, we can't talk about romance in more recent fiction7900:05:32.240 --> 00:05:34.400without mentioning Twilight.8000:05:34.760 --> 00:05:38.580Now, I don't know how old you were when Twilight was around.8100:05:38.740 --> 00:05:44.560I was a mother of a daughter of the age at which Twilight was sort8200:05:44.560 --> 00:05:45.120of directed.8300:05:45.960 --> 00:05:49.920And I remember my daughter was completely besotted by this series.8400:05:50.760 --> 00:05:53.600So, I went and read it because I thought, why is she walking around the8500:05:53.600 --> 00:05:54.620house holding Twilight?8600:05:55.320 --> 00:05:56.340What is going on here?8700:05:56.460 --> 00:05:58.100What's the secret sauce going on?8800:05:58.520 --> 00:06:02.160And of course, you quickly see that it is a high school romance.8900:06:02.340 --> 00:06:07.080It's got that breathless intensity of that crush that you get on the cool boy9000:06:07.080 --> 00:06:08.980in the years above you.9100:06:09.420 --> 00:06:11.940Again, aimed at a female readership.9200:06:12.700 --> 00:06:17.290And it's riveting.9300:06:17.290 --> 00:06:23.690There's also, because of the vampirism thing, it reintroduces the idea of9400:06:23.690 --> 00:06:24.230manners.9500:06:24.790 --> 00:06:30.850So, if you think about a Regency story written like, say, Jane Austen, very9600:06:30.850 --> 00:06:36.710small gestures have an erotic charge, you know, dancing with somebody.9700:06:37.090 --> 00:06:41.090Or if you look at the film versions of Jane Austen, being handed into a9800:06:41.090 --> 00:06:46.890carriage in Persuasion and Captain Wentworth takes one of the naughty little9900:06:46.890 --> 00:06:50.870boys who's clambering over Anne off her back, relieving her of a load.10000:06:51.090 --> 00:06:57.250Tiny gestures which speak volumes about what's going on, the subtext of that10100:06:57.250 --> 00:06:57.870relationship.10200:06:59.250 --> 00:07:02.990Twilight does that through the metaphor of the vampire.10300:07:03.550 --> 00:07:04.830How far can you go?10400:07:05.290 --> 00:07:09.190Because the vampire might lose control because your blood is so tasty.10500:07:10.030 --> 00:07:13.610And of course, the idea of blood and what have you, it's all very textual.10600:07:14.850 --> 00:07:18.010And it has that element of danger.10700:07:18.250 --> 00:07:25.310In modern times when anything goes, each to their own, it reintroduces an10800:07:25.310 --> 00:07:27.130element of restrictions.10900:07:27.610 --> 00:07:30.990And restrictions make for a better, tense relationship.11000:07:31.990 --> 00:07:38.030Because there are taboos and things you can't do and borders that are crossed,11100:07:38.030 --> 00:07:39.770which are big in the relationship.11200:07:40.670 --> 00:07:41.950So it was doing that.11300:07:42.070 --> 00:07:48.550It was doing the high school, using vampire as this sort of coding for romantic11400:07:48.550 --> 00:07:49.130rules.11500:07:49.810 --> 00:07:53.850And, you know, there's lots of peril and attacks and drama.11600:07:54.850 --> 00:07:58.890I can see why a teenage girl likes it.11700:07:59.270 --> 00:08:04.730However, I do remember watching the film versions, taking a party of school11800:08:04.730 --> 00:08:06.630kids, I think, you know, daughter's friends.11900:08:07.350 --> 00:08:08.530I think it was the third film.12000:08:09.010 --> 00:08:14.070I noticed that in the cinema, I and an adult, my dad, who'd come with12100:08:14.070 --> 00:08:18.450their family, were both laughing at very different things from the girls.12200:08:18.870 --> 00:08:20.990Because I found it all a bit satirical.12300:08:21.530 --> 00:08:26.830And I sort of laughed at a meta level, which I think wasn't really noticed12400:08:26.830 --> 00:08:28.410at that stage by the audience.12500:08:28.510 --> 00:08:32.370So if my daughter watched it today, she would pick up on those same signals.12600:08:33.510 --> 00:08:37.070So what is a fantasy romance?12700:08:37.350 --> 00:08:40.409Well, I think we first of all have to say it's not a fantasy with12800:08:40.409 --> 00:08:41.250a romance in.12900:08:42.049 --> 00:08:45.270So obviously, Tolkien, we all love Tolkien.13000:08:45.870 --> 00:08:47.910There are romances in Tolkien.13100:08:48.270 --> 00:08:53.470There's Aragorn and Arwen, Faramir and Erwin, Beren and Lúthien.13200:08:53.470 --> 00:09:00.470These are romances, love stories, but they don't make Lord of the Rings a13300:09:00.470 --> 00:09:05.790romance, because the main driver of the plot is that of friendship and13400:09:05.790 --> 00:09:06.270sacrifice.13500:09:07.110 --> 00:09:12.930So it's not romantic love, it's filial, it's the love of comrades, the love for13600:09:12.930 --> 00:09:18.810your country, it's that kind of love, the sort of love of the soldier fighting13700:09:18.810 --> 00:09:22.370for what's right, or the person putting their life on the line.13800:09:23.390 --> 00:09:25.290So exclude that.13900:09:27.290 --> 00:09:34.150So if you're looking for a good romance in fantasy for reading over Valentine's14000:09:34.150 --> 00:09:42.670Day or giving to somebody, I'm not into the very explicit version of this that14100:09:42.670 --> 00:09:43.770you get in some romanticy.14200:09:43.950 --> 00:09:47.370So I would not pick that myself, each to their own.14300:09:48.170 --> 00:09:51.730But there are some writers who've been around for a few years that I would14400:09:51.730 --> 00:09:52.250recommend.14500:09:53.850 --> 00:10:00.170So she's an older writer now, but I very much enjoyed Elizabeth Vaughan's War14600:10:00.170 --> 00:10:02.330Prize trilogy.14700:10:02.530 --> 00:10:03.810It starts with a book called War Prize.14800:10:03.910 --> 00:10:07.010This one is the last in the series, Warlord.14900:10:07.690 --> 00:10:16.670And it's really a story of what happens between a colonizer and a colonized and15000:10:16.670 --> 00:10:19.390looking at how two cultures come together.15100:10:20.150 --> 00:10:23.010And the romance is a way of showing that.15200:10:24.490 --> 00:10:28.310Again, I would say it's a sort of YA upwards title.15300:10:28.810 --> 00:10:30.430But I very much enjoyed that.15400:10:30.510 --> 00:10:31.330And I would recommend that.15500:10:31.470 --> 00:10:32.930Again, it's an older book.15600:10:33.350 --> 00:10:38.550So published in the early part of this century.15700:10:39.110 --> 00:10:43.810And she's done others as well that sort of expand her world.15800:10:43.870 --> 00:10:45.090And I very much enjoyed those.15900:10:45.090 --> 00:10:49.330Another writer writing around the same time is Maria V.16000:10:49.510 --> 00:10:49.990Schneider.16100:10:50.310 --> 00:10:54.450The book I've got in my hand is Magic Study, but it starts with one16200:10:54.450 --> 00:10:59.690called Poison Study, which has one of the best openings of any book, in my16300:10:59.690 --> 00:10:59.930view.16400:11:00.250 --> 00:11:05.690It starts with the main character, Yelena, who is in prison on Death Row.16500:11:06.830 --> 00:11:10.950And she is dragged out after this awful experience.16600:11:11.570 --> 00:11:13.910She's dragged out and given the choice.16700:11:14.010 --> 00:11:19.590You can either go to the noose, or you can become the food taster for16800:11:19.590 --> 00:11:22.090the general who's in charge of this world.16900:11:22.690 --> 00:11:24.990But of course, there's a high chance you'll die of poison.17000:11:26.070 --> 00:11:27.270And I love that story.17100:11:27.450 --> 00:11:32.950And it has a sort of slow burn romance that runs through the series.17200:11:33.070 --> 00:11:38.830And the series expands from the first country in and goes into other nations,17300:11:38.830 --> 00:11:40.150which is absolutely fascinating.17400:11:40.150 --> 00:11:44.690So I would recommend that if you haven't read them already.17500:11:45.350 --> 00:11:50.270And again, the world expands into other series alongside it.17600:11:51.630 --> 00:11:58.070Another series I like is Trudy Canavan's The Magician's Guild, which is a sort17700:11:58.070 --> 00:11:58.630of tragedy.17800:11:58.990 --> 00:12:00.550Sorry to spoil the end.17900:12:00.790 --> 00:12:07.670But there's a tragic vein in this about Sonia, who's a trainee magician.18000:12:08.670 --> 00:12:13.110Perhaps this is one of those ones which is evenly balanced, because in fact,18100:12:13.210 --> 00:12:15.370the love story doesn't dominate.18200:12:15.530 --> 00:12:16.790There's some other points of view.18300:12:17.430 --> 00:12:21.330So it may actually be on the cusp, but it does definitely have a romance18400:12:21.330 --> 00:12:25.950in it by the time you get to the second and third parts of the18500:12:25.950 --> 00:12:26.210trilogy.18600:12:26.770 --> 00:12:31.790I haven't actually really liked as much Trudy Canavan's other books in and18700:12:31.790 --> 00:12:34.150around this one, but this first three I've really liked.18800:12:34.870 --> 00:12:36.290So I would recommend that.18900:12:37.950 --> 00:12:42.650And of course, there is a huge world of books, which are primarily the sort19000:12:42.650 --> 00:12:44.770of digital download Kindle world.19100:12:45.870 --> 00:12:46.430Absolutely.19200:12:48.170 --> 00:12:52.430Part of the landscape, which is chock-a-block with titles.19300:12:53.250 --> 00:12:57.650There's a fascinating husband and wife duo who write as Elona Andrews.19400:12:58.690 --> 00:13:04.110They have some very good books in that series, and the Kate Daniels series.19500:13:05.710 --> 00:13:09.950And I've actually enjoyed some of the books she's written after, because19600:13:09.950 --> 00:13:14.750normally you would expect romance to finish at wedding bells, but actually19700:13:14.750 --> 00:13:19.150she's carried on, or they have carried on after.19800:13:19.870 --> 00:13:21.110And that's very enjoyable.19900:13:21.250 --> 00:13:22.310It's quite a huge area.20000:13:22.690 --> 00:13:26.750Talking about Mammoth series, another one, which is actually a detective story,20100:13:26.910 --> 00:13:34.090is the J.D. Robb in-death series, which has a central couple who really20200:13:34.090 --> 00:13:35.950are sort of the heart of it.20300:13:36.010 --> 00:13:38.170But I think it's now into about 56 parts.20400:13:38.710 --> 00:13:42.010And I have actually read all of them or listened to them over the years,20500:13:42.010 --> 00:13:43.490but it's been running since the 90s.20600:13:43.650 --> 00:13:46.190So yeah, I think they do about one or two a year.20700:13:47.130 --> 00:13:54.670So if you like a sort of slightly futuristic cop romance, that's a good series.20800:13:55.390 --> 00:14:00.570Though they do have the problem that when she started writing, it's actually20900:14:00.570 --> 00:14:02.810Nora Roberts is the underlying writer.21000:14:03.830 --> 00:14:07.650There was, you know, 2050 felt a long way off and now we're catching up.21100:14:07.730 --> 00:14:08.770So I don't know what she's going to do.21200:14:09.110 --> 00:14:10.570Plus it's taking a very long time.21300:14:11.490 --> 00:14:19.790J.D. Robb, life of the characters is going much more slowly than real life.21400:14:21.030 --> 00:14:23.950So you keep wanting them to move a little bit further on with their21500:14:23.950 --> 00:14:24.710relationship.21600:14:25.210 --> 00:14:29.010So it's taking a while, that series, but enjoyable.21700:14:29.590 --> 00:14:35.150The detective plots are always very entertaining and set in a futuristic New21800:14:35.150 --> 00:14:35.370York.21900:14:35.690 --> 00:14:37.710So yeah, catnip.22000:14:39.170 --> 00:14:44.870So I've also written fantasy versions of romances.22100:14:45.430 --> 00:14:51.310And my first series writing as Joss Sterling was the Finding Sky series, which22200:14:51.310 --> 00:14:58.290stretched to six books, which did very well for me back in the 2010s.22300:14:58.430 --> 00:15:03.030And what I was thinking about was I was writing that is I wanted a22400:15:03.030 --> 00:15:12.670sense of that intense finding the right person because often actually22500:15:12.670 --> 00:15:14.010that's the heart of it.22600:15:14.090 --> 00:15:17.730And this is where I'm going to rest on it is when you find the22700:15:17.730 --> 00:15:22.650right person and you click together, that is such a big payoff.22800:15:22.910 --> 00:15:23.750That is what we want.22900:15:23.830 --> 00:15:26.290We want Elizabeth to find her Darcy.23000:15:26.710 --> 00:15:30.010In my case, you want your Sky to find her Zed.23100:15:30.950 --> 00:15:37.410And that clicking together is why people read romances because it promises, and23200:15:37.410 --> 00:15:40.550this perhaps is where it might be a bit of a fantasy, it promises there23300:15:40.550 --> 00:15:43.610is someone out there for you if you just find them.23400:15:43.710 --> 00:15:49.950So I hope this Valentine's Day that you have found that right person who clicks23500:15:49.950 --> 00:15:54.570together with you, or if you've had one that didn't click that you're able to23600:15:54.570 --> 00:15:56.110go on and find that person.23700:15:56.470 --> 00:16:03.890So happy Valentine's Day and do pick up a good romantic fantasy and have some23800:16:03.890 --> 00:16:04.150fun.23900:16:04.750 --> 00:16:06.270Thank you very much for listening.