Transcript
[0:00] Hello and welcome to Mythmakers. Mythmakers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy creatives brought to you by the Oxford Centre for Fantasy. And it's always great fun in my place here as running the centre is to meet fellow authors. My name is Julia Golding and today I am joined by Dutch author, hold on to this because I'm trying very hard to get this right, um Yorick Goldewijk which is felt if you're looking for his book I'm going to say this because this is important it's g-o-l-d-e-w-i-j-k Goldewijk and here is his wonderful book which is called movies showing nowhere and this has been translated from the dutch by Laura Watkinson. Now, first of all, congratulations on this book. It's very thought-provoking. It's a middle-grade fantasy. We'll hear a little bit more about this in a moment.
[1:03] Very unusual, very original. So I'm very excited to talk to you about it. But first of all, I wanted to take you back in time because that is one of the themes in the book. And your main character, Kate, is about 12 when we join her. So where was Yorick? When he was 12 and what kind of fantasy stories was turning him onto the whole idea of writing fantasy yeah well when i was about 12 years old um i know my favorite book must have been ronja the robber's daughter from astrid lindgen which is actually also uh well it's a fantasy book actually uh it was such a a book you know what you um when you're young you have it more More often, I think, than when you're an adult that you really fall in love with. And, you know, you're actually really sad when it's over. You want to stay in that world forever.
[1:59] That's what I experienced with that book. And that's also the book, I think, because I was already writing before then. I was writing little stories and I fantasized about being a writer. But when I read this book, I was sort of certain that I really wanted to be a writer. So my first real efforts at that age were sort of copies of Gwynedd the Robber's Daughter that I was writing. That sort of imitation phase is so important, isn't it? I did exactly the same thing. I've got books from the end of primary level where it goes from some kind of children of green know, you know, Lucy Boston story to some kind of Narnia story to some kind of space thing because it was following what I was reading and it is absolutely how you learn to write. Yeah, and you get so enthusiastic then that you just want to do that and you don't know, you don't have your own voice yet so you're really looking for things to hold on to and slowly something of yourself evolves then. Yeah, exactly.
[3:04] Yeah. So how did you get from the little boy at 12, well not so little at 12, are you? How did you get from there to being the author you are today and this particular book?
[3:15] Uh, well, I, um, I always wrote since then, actually, and the stories got longer and longer. And I think at the age of 20, maybe I, I actually finished my first novel. It was for adults, by the way. And I, um, had worked on it for years and I just neglected everything else. My, uh, study, my friends, uh, everything in the rest of my life. Um, but it got rejected. it i sent it to four publishers and they all rejected it and then i just continued writing i was a bit disappointed of course but i continued writing i only started writing children's books when my son was born because i had the idea as many people maybe have to start writing a book for my son and that became my first book um i had it finished really quickly like in six weeks was done with it, I thought. And I was really, really, really, really, really happy with it. I never had written something so well, I thought.
[4:18] So I sent it over to a publisher and I was convinced that everything would turn out fine. But I got rejected again, of course, after half a year. I got a note, a small note saying, no, sorry. And then I rewrote the whole thing and thought about it a bit more. And I sent it to a different publisher and again, got rejected after half a year and that repeated like 15 times i think and then the 16th uh time which was nine years after i started writing uh there was finally a publisher that wanted to have my book and it's by the way really cool because it's the same publisher that also did the dutch translation of ronnie the robber's daughter so it was a fantastic publisher and it was the circle was round uh uh so that that was when it really started and then i just all of a sudden i had written so many things before that never got published and all of a sudden i had a publisher and then it was like um uh a stream that just continued on so i continued writing and uh yeah it was full of ideas and then uh i wrote a second um it's a series the first book I wrote a second book and then I also did a picture book with my wife. And then after that, that came a movie showing nowhere, which was actually also a little bit accidental, I guess, because I was working on something else.
[5:45] But it was, I just got stuck all the time with that story. So I decided at first I thought to do something light in between, which was the start of movie showing nowhere. And all of a sudden it sort of swept me off my feet, I guess. I was just completely obsessed by what it turned into.
[6:05] And then it just sort of happened, the story, I guess. So people can understand what we're talking about, because it is an unusual story. Do you want to give us a little bit of an idea of the, you know, like the back of the book? What story are we reading when we pick this up? It's the story of Kate, whose mom has died when she was giving birth to her. Uh and her dad is like um well he's still in a sort of a mourning state actually never really got over it um but it's not all what's wrong with him he's just kind of uh not there the whole time so she doesn't really know him speak with him uh she doesn't hear any stories about her mother also so kate just has her own life and she has her own interests she walks around with a camera and takes pictures of all kinds of, very normal things that actually are so normal that nobody really sees them anymore and she finds these things interesting so she has a very.
[7:06] Distinct and quirky look at the world and then all of a sudden she learns that the cinema in the city is opened again, it's an old cinema and there's a very weird lady who's running the cinema and in this cinema there are not ordinary movies that are shown, but there's something very special about the cinema. I don't want to tell too much about it. No, that's right. This is why I gave you the job of saying, because there is some wonderful twists in the plot. But I think we can say it's a magical cinema. It's a magical cinema. Yes. Yeah. You can do something in the cinema that I think everyone in the world would like to be able to do. Um, and Kate also wants this, uh, but she's also really scared to actually confront herself with her deepest, deepest wish.
[8:01] Um, so she slowly, um, learns more about herself also about her father because her father has also, there's more about him than just this empty sack who was sitting in his chair the whole day. Um and as a reader you slowly learn
[8:18] how things are uh really um.
[8:22] Put together yes i'm going to stop you there so you don't reveal uh yeah so this this yeah this book in dutch won the golden pencil prize for the best dutch children's book of the year and it was shortlisted for the flemish boon literature prize so um pushkin press who uh children's books who we know very well at the oxford center for fantasy they have a mission to find the best in fantasy around the world and bring it into english because a lot goes the other way and then it's to bring books the other way and so it's why we've got this opportunity to read your wonderful book um so c.s lewis who obviously is an oxford fantasy writer he said that you know there's really two things in books lots more than to but two main things one is the words which are like the plot and then there's the secret atmosphere the theme or the he called it the kappa because he was classically trained so referring to the the greek alphabet um in movies showing nowhere it seemed to me that that kind of secret atmosphere was grief and how we deal with grief and how we emerge from it.
[9:39] Would you agree that's the kind of secret atmosphere of the book, or is there something else that you'd like to highlight at this point? I think it's grief. Maybe it's more specific. It's about the way that nothing lasts forever. Everything passes by, which is sad because you can never hold on to things forever, which is also very important that it happens and also very beautiful people because if everything was to last forever you would never cherish anything or love anything anymore i think it's the idea of knowing that it's not forever that makes things worthwhile, um so it's a little bit about i think uh you know uh embracing life at the moment that it's happening instead of maybe you know also when you get older um it's it's you're you're busy with all kinds of things that are not really the core of your life but are just things you have to deal with and um you have to take care of and uh sometimes the the actual important things are sort of um unseen passing you by and the book is more like a uh sort of a uh a cry out to to to embrace it, to not let it slip away at the moment that it's happening and also to, um.
[11:04] Uh to deal with things that are passing by and to to cherish these things and that you can always um do something about it that's never too late that you can always you know take things in your own hand and um yeah make them yours so the idea that kate takes pictures of things which other people don't notice is part of that capturing those moments isn't it that you you notice it's like keep have your eyes open everyone so one of the things in it that um is great fun is it celebrates weirdness kate is delightfully weird i mean in a really nice way um she doesn't fit in at school she hasn't yet found her crowd which i think is the experience of many a child who feels school isn't their thing um but on the other hand i often hear people saying that now the sort of geek nerd culture is now mainstream so just take for example those people who played dungeons and dragons and loved tolkien back in the 80s those days that was deeply weird and and it's cool now it's cool yeah yeah it's true so do you what do you think about this whole theme of being a you know the other english word for this is being a misfit yeah you I wonder if we all feel we actually are in some way misfits.
[12:27] I think everybody does really think they're misfits. And everybody who seems to be not a misfit is, I think, someone who has just adapted and who is not showing everything and who's just learned how to maneuver in a sort of a smooth way in the world. Yes.
[12:44] Um and maybe maybe uh uh has forgotten how to be a misfit because i think um everybody is weird in a in a in a in a certain way always and that's i think why there are so many books about uh misfits because it's it refers to everybody and everybody feels like you know they they they and they see themselves in them in in these characters for a certain way.
[13:12] Um and like for kate it's it's also not different i think there's also other uh there's also another guy a story about another guy who was actually in love with her and she hits him because she thinks he's just making fun of her you know and that's that seems to be like a very popular dude but he's also actually secretly in love with her and doesn't try doesn't know how to say it to her and also gets punched in the face for it so everybody has their own quirky uh uh an embarrassing uh self that are that is hidden in their in themselves somewhere i guess yeah and that's very comforting to find out that you are not alone in being alone you know and also i think that what's cool about kate um but not many people have i think i wasn't like that when i was young that that she that she sort of embraces this weirdness that she says well I'll just be this and I don't care if anyone else likes it. Although she actually really does care a little bit more than that, of course. But she does have a sort of an attitude.
[14:21] Which makes her a bit cool, I think. Yes. Yeah. She likes being weird as well. She says something like, I don't know exactly how it is in English, but like if you're openly weird, you're actually sort of invincible. Yeah, that's the translation. Yeah. I think it's invincible rather than powerful, but it is where you get power from. I suppose another way of thinking about this is if you're easy in your own skin. If you're when everybody else isn't, then that gives you a real sense of power, core strength. I've noticed that you are not just a writer, you're also an illustrator and a musician.
[14:59] So how does all of this, your creativity, create your own unique, delightfully weird world? Do you illustrate not really it's not really true by the way i well i wanted to be an illustrator and i always did that on a primary school but that sort of slipped away i guess i like to draw i'm still but it's not not on a professional way so what music i do uh actually uh compose music uh it's like my other job and uh i i always do this like for podcasts for example or for games or I create music for other people's stories in that way. But also for my own audio books, I create music. Um, so I think always like, uh, music and language are really very much, very similar actually, you know, uh, language has a rhythm and, uh, uh, it has also like a melody when you're, when you're talking, you're sort of singing a little bit. I mean, your voice goes up and down and raises and softens. Um, so it's very similar to me. And also as an art form, uh, music is, is something dynamic. So it starts somewhere and it evolves in time, which is the same with a story that you're reading, of course.
[16:17] So there are two very similar art forms to me. And it's also very important for me always when I'm writing, I have to listen to music. There's a certain, so my books always start just with a mood, nothing else. I don't have a plot or anything. It's completely unimportant. it's just a mood that starts it all that i know oh this is something and that mood also um is very easily um activated by music so i have certain playlists for each story i have a different playlist with with music that is suitable to this specific mood and i keep on playing that all the time when i'm writing and if i'm writing without the music it's notably just uh rough more rough to to actually write something so they're really both very much uh the same for me and very important oh that's fascinating because it sounds like you almost compose your books yeah that is that is how it works i mean that is a word for writing but very very closely compose them yeah it's true yeah and that actually takes me to my next question really well which is um you talked about you doing your audio books and here we are talking about one of your books in translation so if you've got that sensitivity to language as you obviously have do you have you noticed a.
[17:42] Shift i've called it the weather pattern um when when i was thinking about this so has that mood shifted from dutch to english would you say or the two languages are quite close of course in the great family of languages yeah i think um it's it's more at its place i think in in uh in english which is maybe weird to say because i've of course written it in dutch and i'm you know more familiar with dutch and the dutch preciseness of words to me is easily more easily uh uh conceivable than in the english uh words but still there is something about the.
[18:26] Uh yeah it's it's a magical story of course but not it's also it has also a sort of a realism so it's somewhere in between there which feels real really uh english to me so also because now we're talking with um the movie rights for the dutch film have been uh sold and we've also been talking to a lot of directors about the setting of the book and we were all um in agreement on that it's not a typical Dutch village where it should be. To me, I see more like an English sort of movie village than a Dutch, typical Dutch town. So in that way, I guess it's really good.
[19:16] It's sort of origin place almost, I think, in the English language. Oh, that's absolutely fascinating. fascinating and i and you've very carefully not given it a specific location the places are vividly realized but we're not told it's rotterdam or amsterdam or anything like that it's very much its own yeah i think i never i never do that by the way give it uh put it somewhere uh my stories in a real geographic exact place because you lose something in the story, I guess. I don't know why, but I want to keep it realistic. It could be in this world, of course, but it doesn't have to be. It's like when you're illustrating and you're showing the face of your main character and that's then the face of your main character and there's no other face possible anymore, which is the same, I think, here. It should be i think everybody has their own feeling of where it takes place maybe it takes place uh you know for someone in spain it would be in a very hot town for example yeah it doesn't feel like yeah i don't know but it's i think it's good to leave that open and to me well like i said it's very much um yeah a british kind of feel what it has yeah it definitely um.
[20:39] As the Brit on this is called, I could definitely imagine it filmed in some small town here and you wouldn't feel it was lost anything. In fact, it probably would just really sit very well in that landscape. Yeah.
[20:58] Just earlier, you were saying how you start with a mood. And this leads to a question about plotting because and we absolutely won't give away the twists and turns because it's a beautifully um constructed book in a way it shifts your understanding of what's going on um but do you do that as a something you discover as you write or is it something that after a little bit of writing you're beginning to plot your own reversal it's a discovery for me i think like i said it always starts with a mood this specific book by the way started with uh well very uh uh fitting started with a photograph of myself from like 20 years ago when i was sitting in a cinema myself and i didn't know i had this photo anymore and i found it again and all of some something spoke to me like there's There's a story here. Something mysterious is going on in the cinema. And that's enough for me to start. It will stay in my head for weeks and it will slowly evolve.
[22:03] Maybe a character arises from it or maybe a short scene arises from it or a place where I want to write about. But it's all separate things that are connected to each other by this specific mood that starts it all. So there was no plot except for the idea of a cinema where something mysterious was going on and that was all i had to go by and then i just started writing and um at a certain point um i thought of this uh relationship between kate and her mom that her mom had died and and then i I immediately went completely to the ending of the book. I wrote the ending, like one of the first things that are really, chapters that were really finished. I wanted to test out if it would work, if it would be as cool as I hoped it could be. And then when that worked, I sort of started to work backwards.
[23:05] And of course, without all this planning, because I don't plan anything and just let it flow, I stumbled upon lots of problems. Big problems specifically because the book has you know um in terms of plot it's it's a bit complicated things have to um really uh uh.
[23:29] So if one thing isn't done right and the whole thing sort of collapses and a lot of things, you know, seemed like I could never get them to fit together. So I often had the feeling like I couldn't go on with the book and I just had to give up.
[23:47] And then I was sort of pondering and feeling bad for like a week and couldn't sleep and just keep on thinking about how can I solve this? How can I solve this? This is never going to work. and then all of a sudden there's always sort of a uh an epiphany i don't know how you call it but something that sort of a light and i think oh this is it and not only do i solve the problem then but there's also something else somewhere else that gets much better all of a sudden so it was like it wasn't as i said a discovery it's always like i feel that the story maybe just already exists somewhere i think stephen king said something like that as well Like he was referring to an archaeologist, you know, who was sort of slowly discovering this whole dinosaur bone thing by just really patiently rubbing away the earth around it and not messing it up. It sort of feels like that sometimes. Like I just, I know that the story is already there. It wasn't this first moment of this picture that I looked at it and I thought, here's this mood. Here's a story. And I just have to discover it and I can mess it up. I can just take wrong turns and lose the whole story. But if I'm sort of careful enough, then it will unravel itself and you will have a book.
[25:10] That's a lovely description, and I very much empathize with that because when I write, I prefer the discovery route, but I'm writing puzzle thrillers at the moment, so that necessitates a bit more planning. Yeah. And it's against the grain, but it's necessary because of the nature of that book. Mm-hmm. But I love the idea of being an archaeologist. So I'm trying not to give too much away, way but um the cinema is at the heart of your story and there's an element here about using it as a way of examining your past let me put it like that yeah in a way the cinema is a form of therapy, in my view for is this like you were thinking about because there is like a metaphorical or an application of what it might mean in our real world from what it was what was happening in the the fantasy version of this. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I mean, everybody has, has things in the past that are, you know, they'd like to do something with or like to, um, relive, but with the knowledge of how they are now. Uh, so, uh, in that sense, it is a sort of a therapy, of course, to, um, even as an experiment of the mind to do something like that. Um, um.
[26:35] It comes with its dangers, though, doesn't it? Just to play devil's advocate here, that there are some sort of talking therapies that do a lot of taking you back. And sometimes you can actually put a construction around your memory, which may not be reliable. Yeah, that is true. Actually, also, I've had that several times, that there was a special vacation, for example, and I wanted to return there again to that place with uh it was with my wife we we sort of met in Spain and it was really special of course and then a few years later we went back to the same place and it sort of uh spoils then the the actual memory of then because it gets sort of overwritten maybe by new things that are not as uh special as uh this memory because you always of course um change the things that really happen i mean you don't what you remember is not really what happened that moment i think uh as also this is all the richness of your book it's making this is the thought pattern it sent me on i think i'd really encourage even if you're an adult.
[27:47] Um don't be put off why in fact it's a middle grade because i think it's got a level which you will meet it as an adult as well as being the perfect book for the you know 10 11 year old 12 year old in your life and because it certainly made me think about the place of memory and painful memories and good memories in in my life so this idea that fantasy can put a frame around something in our real world i sometimes use the idea it's like a laboratory where you put the way we treat memory you and you've used this
[28:21] idea of a cinema as your little laboratory for that. Are there other things you want to put in your laboratory to have a look at? Future books that you've got lined up?
[28:32] Yes, I am now working on another book, Which is more, I think, more like about the world, the way the world is going now and the way people are living. It's sort of what I think. I mean, I don't want to put in a morale or a message in my book. Not specifically, by the way. But, of course, I think about things and I have a specific opinion about things and feel very strongly about other things. So they naturally come into my book. I always like books to be, you know, they have to be nice to read, but I also should, um, be thought provoking. I think, you know, they should be able to put you on a different, uh, in a different perspective of things or, or, or make you look at yourself and learn something. There should be more about the book than just having a fun read, which, uh, I, I also, I always read books that have that as well. And I think that's important. So I always look for something more than just this nice story. Uh and this next story i think um because everything i've written so far is really different from each other and this is more like a a sort of uh i don't know how you say this in english but a a critical critical look at how we spend our lives as human beings on the planet.
[29:58] Um also what makes us beautiful is maybe also what makes us dangerous to ourselves and to planet um there's something um sort of um controversial in ourselves that are you know two two powers that are opposing each other that come from the same root in ourselves so it's it's almost impossible not to be a human being and create music and art and and to love each other, to do that and to not also have this you know more dangerous darker side so that's it's kind of complicated what i'm trying to say because it's the first time i'm trying to put it in words it's the promethean aspect isn't it so it's like prometheus so the giver of fire exactly yeah it's but that entails punishment so we are that's why the romantic poets like byron was so interested in Prometheus because it's the overreacher the person who yeah goes too far and that's what we are it's our splendor and our failure yeah that's a quite that's a deep place to land on so well let's let's hold that because that's a really good thought so do you have for us to share with us a um a tip.
[31:16] In the world of fantasy it could be something you've read something you've watched or even something that you've thought of as you're writing that for other fantasy creatives out there what would be your tip oh um yeah i think i have something but it's really very different from what i'm writing myself but i really liked it a lot and it's called never night it's it's a book series maybe you know it's it's i don't know how is jay kristoff from the top of my head if it's It's the writer. So it's also about a girl, by the way. And she's going to a school to become a killer, which is kind of maybe almost like a cliche kind of fantasy. Yeah, the assassin thing. Yeah. Yeah. But it's done so well. And the whole setting of the world is also really original. It's sort of a little bit like an old-fashioned Italian kind of world. Old it's very much like um uh with with a sort of a classical feel it has um and the book is really um very good in its plot it's really getting you uh constantly on your toes and you're constantly misguessing what's going to happen and the girl's a really cool character that's very um complex too.
[32:35] So I haven't, you know, I started reading this because a friend of mine said it was good and I didn't really know what I was starting to read. It wasn't something I'd normally read. So I was really surprised by it. So that would be a tip from me. Thank you, Arne. And also one of the children's books, by the way, Lampy from Arnette Schaap, which is also a great writer. Also from Pushkin, by the way. Yes. Wonderful. wonderful it's a children's book but it's also for older readers i think it's really wonderful read and so it's an actual typical fairy tale kind of magical story really beautiful that one i have read and it's beautifully illustrated as well yeah by herself yeah right yeah really cool thank you that's uh well i'll certainly look that up so we always finish by imagining where in all the fantasy worlds by which i mean anything from books film tv whatever games where is all where is the best place for something and in honor of your cinema with its ability to examine our memories um where would you like to go back so i'm thinking here you could be looking in galadriel's mirror you could be looking in dumbledore's pensieve or you could even pack up your own cinema and take it with you, where would you like to go and examine memories of characters from the, and see what the past was like?
[34:00] So it can also code into the memories of other people. Yeah, definitely. Because I think these things work like that, don't they? The mechanism, the cinema, the mirror, the pensive, is available for you to look at other people's memories. Yeah, that's true.
[34:20] Well, let me see. i think um like i would i would love to go back to a time where i don't know when science maybe like someone like albert einstein would be nice i guess because um of his um the way he lived i think and also the way he was um able to to really discover now actually magical things I think he was the one also who said, you know, there are two ways to live your life. One is to think nothing's a miracle and one is to think everything's a miracle. And I think he lived his life as the second one. And of course, there's still a lot to discover in the world. The universe is still like a completely mysterious, weird place with things we couldn't still conceive how they would be in reality, I think. But he of course did some really big discoveries about how time space is bent, completely getting away from the old fashioned Newton situation where everything is the way it is. So I would like to go back to the moment that he was sort of starting to be aware that something big was going on and he was at the verge of discovering it.
[35:46] Because I think that's something I always, also in my books, also how Kate looks at the world as if there's something to be discovered behind a door or a wall somewhere. There's something magical just behind the real, maybe dull world around us. There's something, you know, just a little bit outside of where we can see. There's something there that could turn off everything around. And I think that Einstein actually had this moment where he actually looked behind his wall or looked behind the door and saw reality in a completely new way, which is just really exciting, I think. So we're going to have to bring Einstein into some other world so we can go back to him. So something like a Star Trek world or something where we can go back to him in order to examine it, I think. We've got the rules of my game here. I think that what that made what listening to you um describe Einstein and the fascinating.
[36:47] What you're looking there is the encounter with an extraordinary mind and I was thinking that the the fantasy worlds where I would like to do this, journey is the ones which are most complete and you've got characters where you think they have something interesting to tell us and perhaps also the ones that live a very long time so So there's the obvious people that would be great fun, like Hitcher riding Gandalf's memory, for example. But that's perhaps a bit obvious. I was thinking that maybe it would be really interesting to go into the bit in Narnia that isn't covered, between the magician's nephew and the lion and the witch in the wardrobe. Wardrobe to and i suppose the character that would give you that access is aslan i have to admit that i haven't read it yet oh well gosh i should i should though i think because they are they are you know um in terms of an english-speaking world they are like everybody well not everybody a lot of people they are their entryway to fantasy they're easier to read than the hobbits so So probably a younger reader tends to find them at sort of eight and nine, whereas The Hobbit is a bit more of a challenge.
[38:10] But yeah, highly recommended. There's a whole sort of, the Narnian stories go from the creation of Narnia to the end of Narnia, like a whole sort of biblical scope.
[38:24] So there is bits which are, there's jumps in history, and I'd love to see what happened in those. I also think about another one by the way, I'm not sure what his name was again but the, Uh, the, the younger, uh, the, the boy from, uh, Storm of Ice and Fire, like from Game of Thrones, the one that is, um, crippled that falls from, uh, in the beginning falls from, uh, is sort of the new leader or the new seer of the future in the end, who is going to be the emperor, I think maybe in the end. I'm not sure.
[39:02] Yeah. So I'm, I don't know if it's true. So yeah they haven't spoiled um so he's i think he's also blind maybe i don't know this guy is someone who perceives things i can't imagine what he sees and what he knows but he sees and knows everything i guess so that would be someone yeah i'd be interested in picking his mind and getting into his memory so Yorick thank you so much um for talking to us today um you said to me that your first name Yorick is english i obviously know it best from hamlet uh that's where so i was so excited to um speak to my first Yorick so that's the Yorick's book is the movies no movies no the movies showing nowhere it was published back in april so it's available now and highly Highly recommended.
[39:59] It's a very good book to sit down and read in a short period of time because it's not a huge wedge of a book. I read it over a couple of days and thoroughly enjoyed it. So add that to your
[40:12] list of fantasy reads because it's well worth doing. And I'm going to look forward to the potential of it being in a cinema, which will be a very confusing meta moment with the movie showing nowhere in a cinema. It will be confusing for people, I think. Yeah, it's going to be, that's going to be wild. Anyway, we'll approach that. Thank you so much for joining us, Yorick. Thank you very much for having me.
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