Rings of Power - The Story Perspective (Amazon Prime)

WEBVTT100:00:06.080 --> 00:00:07.990Hello, and welcome to myth makers.200:00:08.620 --> 00:00:13.190Myth makers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy creatives300:00:13.300 --> 00:00:17.990brought to you by the Oxford center for fantasy. My name is Julia Golden.400:00:18.370 --> 00:00:20.910I'm the director of the center, uh,500:00:20.990 --> 00:00:24.750a keen talking fan and also an author in my own. Right.600:00:25.650 --> 00:00:30.310And today I thought I would dedicate this episode to what I've gleaned700:00:30.810 --> 00:00:35.070as a storyteller about the upcoming Amazon series800:00:35.680 --> 00:00:39.230rings of power. Now, there is plenty of information out there.900:00:39.290 --> 00:00:43.110The publicity teams are in full throttle. Um,1000:00:43.130 --> 00:00:46.350so you can find out lots of information about the, uh,1100:00:46.350 --> 00:00:49.350the actors who are playing the parts and, um,1200:00:49.460 --> 00:00:51.430news from the cast and that kind of thing.1300:00:52.050 --> 00:00:56.950So I thought our added value was to look at it as storytellers and1400:00:56.950 --> 00:00:58.030what we might, um,1500:00:58.290 --> 00:01:03.190expect and the decisions that might have been taken in order to write this1600:01:03.190 --> 00:01:04.110particular series.1700:01:05.090 --> 00:01:09.870Cuz I think is an absolutely fascinating challenge that they they're facing.1800:01:11.140 --> 00:01:15.630Most of their material is drawn from the appendices in, uh,1900:01:16.090 --> 00:01:18.590the return of the king. And in fact,2000:01:18.650 --> 00:01:23.630the information in that is very slight. So they've had a very blank canvas,2100:01:24.450 --> 00:01:25.510um, to work on,2200:01:26.050 --> 00:01:30.870but the absolute key thing they've done and I can understand why2300:01:30.870 --> 00:01:34.830they've done it is they've truncated the time period.2400:01:34.970 --> 00:01:37.870So if you just look at the list of the people, uh,2500:01:38.190 --> 00:01:41.790involved the characters involved and you look at the, uh,2600:01:41.890 --> 00:01:45.030the name of the piece, you can see what they've done.2700:01:45.730 --> 00:01:50.070So in the second age, there are two main events,2800:01:51.070 --> 00:01:54.480both of which involve Sarah. The first,2900:01:54.480 --> 00:01:58.720which happens earlier on is the establishment of, uh, Elvin kingdom,3000:01:59.780 --> 00:02:03.880uh, just outside Kado or more Maria, uh,3100:02:04.090 --> 00:02:07.880where Keller BOR, who is one of the leading craftsmen of the era,3200:02:08.630 --> 00:02:12.080he's in charge of that sort of area. And he is, uh,3300:02:12.640 --> 00:02:16.800creating rings of power and into this place comes sour3400:02:17.540 --> 00:02:20.400who, uh, appears quite a sort of attractive figure.3500:02:21.100 --> 00:02:23.760And because he is also a great craftsman,3600:02:24.340 --> 00:02:29.200he shows the elves how to make these rings and that's where the rock gets3700:02:29.220 --> 00:02:34.200in. Uh, cuz he twists it for evil. And it's also the time where he,3800:02:35.020 --> 00:02:36.040um, he,3900:02:36.140 --> 00:02:40.800he forges the one ring that dominates the story of the Lord of the rings.4000:02:41.700 --> 00:02:45.960So there's that SI that whole sort of nexus of characters,4100:02:46.220 --> 00:02:49.000it includes go includes Aron.4200:02:49.220 --> 00:02:54.040It includes skill goad more about all these in a bit later. Um,4300:02:55.140 --> 00:02:59.000but that all happens in terms of the time of,4400:02:59.040 --> 00:03:03.380of the second age, that all happens in about 1600.4500:03:04.320 --> 00:03:08.820So if you just wanna lodge it in your head as like the equivalent of tu days4600:03:09.200 --> 00:03:11.060for us now,4700:03:11.080 --> 00:03:15.980the second area of major activity in that age is4800:03:15.980 --> 00:03:19.940about the fall of new Manor. Up to that point.4900:03:20.800 --> 00:03:25.380Um, new Manor was set apart as an island for the sort of the good guys,5000:03:25.520 --> 00:03:27.340the good humans, the good men,5100:03:28.280 --> 00:03:32.780and it was set between middle earth and the undying lands5200:03:33.360 --> 00:03:35.260as a sort of special dispensation.5300:03:35.890 --> 00:03:39.740It's a kind of Atlantis and that gives you a hint of what happens there.5400:03:40.960 --> 00:03:45.740And there's a whole series of very interesting Kings in that, uh, place.5500:03:45.840 --> 00:03:49.060If you want to read more about them, there's a lot in the unfinished tales,5600:03:49.060 --> 00:03:53.500which are really well worth reading, including a fascinating husband and wife,5700:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.500um, story, which is quite unusual in talking anyway.5800:03:58.920 --> 00:03:59.753Um,5900:03:59.800 --> 00:04:04.620it seems as though where they've settled as the script writers is at the end of6000:04:04.620 --> 00:04:06.060that. Um,6100:04:06.520 --> 00:04:09.700and here we have a story about Muriel.6200:04:10.310 --> 00:04:15.260Who's one of the name characters. She is the last queen of that place.6300:04:15.400 --> 00:04:16.980She was the legitimate queen,6400:04:17.760 --> 00:04:21.580but was forced into marriage with our Faron.6500:04:22.480 --> 00:04:27.380And it's his interaction with Sarah that really causes and he a6600:04:27.380 --> 00:04:30.380plot spoiler, the downfall of Luminor.6700:04:31.040 --> 00:04:34.860So she's quite a tragic figure if they're playing it straight. Um,6800:04:34.860 --> 00:04:38.060because she's in this force marriage and, you know,6900:04:38.500 --> 00:04:43.420disaster strikes and new Manor is punished for the arrogance7000:04:43.520 --> 00:04:47.860of a because SA again comes in and7100:04:48.260 --> 00:04:52.420persuades him that he didn't Abey. Uh,7200:04:52.420 --> 00:04:55.500the God's commands. It's a bit like a garden of Eden story,7300:04:56.050 --> 00:05:00.420very much like a garden of Eden story that he can sell to the undying lands,7400:05:00.880 --> 00:05:01.713uh,7500:05:01.810 --> 00:05:06.420that forbidden fruit is what our fire and sinks his teeth7600:05:06.650 --> 00:05:07.483into.7700:05:07.720 --> 00:05:12.260And I punishment Luminor is sunk and the remnant7800:05:12.970 --> 00:05:17.740escapes and they are the founders of the kingdom of Goor the, uh,7900:05:17.930 --> 00:05:21.060ancestors of, uh, Aragon and so on.8000:05:22.200 --> 00:05:26.580But the important thing about this is all of this happens8100:05:27.080 --> 00:05:30.340in the year 32 55.8200:05:30.760 --> 00:05:35.500So if I've said the events of the 40 of the one ring is back in two8300:05:35.590 --> 00:05:39.340times, you know, that 32 55 hasn't come,8400:05:39.360 --> 00:05:42.140that's probably only appeared in something like star Trek,8500:05:42.490 --> 00:05:44.460it's thousands of years in the future.8600:05:45.760 --> 00:05:48.740So in order to bring those two stories together,8700:05:49.090 --> 00:05:51.340they've crushed the timelines.8800:05:51.960 --> 00:05:55.940So the second age is really sort of squashed together, uh,8900:05:55.940 --> 00:05:59.960or I assume they're doing that rather than some time slip thing. Um,9000:06:00.770 --> 00:06:03.680would, that would be very hard to tell. So let's,9100:06:03.720 --> 00:06:07.600I think they must have sort of moved one set of things from there and one sets9200:06:07.670 --> 00:06:10.720from the future as it were, and they've brought them in alignment.9300:06:11.900 --> 00:06:15.440Now what happens as a storyteller when you do that? Well,9400:06:15.440 --> 00:06:19.960I think it's really interesting to look at it in parallel tracks like that,9500:06:19.960 --> 00:06:23.240because what you see is the same pattern.9600:06:24.460 --> 00:06:29.440So Sarah starts the second age defeated because his great sort9700:06:29.440 --> 00:06:33.440of Lord, uh, the original bad guy,9800:06:33.440 --> 00:06:35.520Mor goth has been defeated and chained.9900:06:36.660 --> 00:06:41.320And so he's like a remnant of that power. So he's in a, on the back foot,10000:06:42.220 --> 00:06:46.680he comes to the ELs with promising. He's gonna be a good boy.10100:06:46.830 --> 00:06:51.480He's gonna show them how to do all these wonderful crafts and the overlord king10200:06:52.060 --> 00:06:56.360who is Gil Gallard doesn't believe him. So here's the skeptic,10300:06:57.540 --> 00:06:59.720but because he's such a good artifact, sir,10400:07:00.740 --> 00:07:05.160the VIN Smiths of a Regian are persuaded to listen10500:07:05.940 --> 00:07:10.880and to invite him in and steal his craft or share their craft secrets.10600:07:11.700 --> 00:07:16.320And so you've got a seduction going on and that word is actually used in the10700:07:16.770 --> 00:07:19.280appendices to describe that relationship.10800:07:19.310 --> 00:07:23.920It's a seduction let's hope they don't take that too literal in the Amazon10900:07:23.920 --> 00:07:28.480series. Um, I it's meant by talking in a sort of intellectual seduction way.11000:07:29.860 --> 00:07:33.840And so Sarah appears as the tempter then, cause he's holding out knowledge.11100:07:34.190 --> 00:07:37.200Here we go back to the garden of Eden again,11200:07:37.270 --> 00:07:41.360it's the fruits of the tree of knowledge. And so11300:07:42.940 --> 00:07:47.550what then happens is basically the gig is up after a while11400:07:47.860 --> 00:07:51.670because killer Brior, who's the main, um,11500:07:51.840 --> 00:07:53.230Smith in that region,11600:07:53.770 --> 00:07:57.310he works out or he sees the plot.11700:07:57.810 --> 00:08:01.870The rings have give you access as you a member from Lord of the rings rings,11800:08:01.870 --> 00:08:03.830give you access to the mind of SA.11900:08:04.330 --> 00:08:09.230So he sees what's going on and they realize they12000:08:09.230 --> 00:08:13.390have to defeat sour. And there is a battle there,12100:08:14.090 --> 00:08:18.670um, for supremacy and that's when a re is basically wiped out. Um,12200:08:19.360 --> 00:08:23.710Elron flees with the remnant to set up, um,12300:08:24.620 --> 00:08:28.990Dale and I'm afraid the future for killer BBA. Isn't that bright.12400:08:29.770 --> 00:08:33.670So that sort of one set of battles. So you've got the pattern.12500:08:33.760 --> 00:08:37.790There is Sarah has tempt to first of all, um,12600:08:38.060 --> 00:08:42.950despite the warnings is embraced and welcomed people,12700:08:43.050 --> 00:08:47.950see what he's up to leads to a clash leads to a battle that same12800:08:47.950 --> 00:08:50.310pattern is repeated in Luminor.12900:08:51.370 --> 00:08:53.910So he's first of all, um,13000:08:53.980 --> 00:08:58.120brought there because a thinks he, he,13100:08:58.300 --> 00:09:02.440he sails to middle earth and to,13200:09:02.540 --> 00:09:05.760to Umar in fact, which we've not yet seen. Um, and13300:09:07.450 --> 00:09:09.640Sarah sort of, you know,13400:09:09.690 --> 00:09:14.200frustrates himself and sort of claims to be overwhelmed by his, you know,13500:09:14.260 --> 00:09:18.600the marvels of his fleet and everything, but he's playing a longer game here.13600:09:18.980 --> 00:09:23.800So he's welcomed to Luminor where he then spreads his poison.13700:09:24.330 --> 00:09:26.640There are people saying, look out warning.13800:09:27.590 --> 00:09:29.400He's not only he's cracked up to be.13900:09:29.400 --> 00:09:33.120So there are people doing the Gill galled role of warning against him,14000:09:34.380 --> 00:09:37.960but that isn't obviously going down well with R on. He,14100:09:38.020 --> 00:09:41.960he wants to believe his top king, uh,14200:09:42.060 --> 00:09:46.280his pride is his downfall. And so,14300:09:47.220 --> 00:09:52.120um, his, uh, his plots aren't unmastered until too late.14400:09:53.060 --> 00:09:56.080So the seduction has gone on and again,14500:09:56.080 --> 00:09:58.640that word is used in the appendices.14600:09:59.580 --> 00:10:01.440He seduces the people14700:10:03.220 --> 00:10:07.120and that is what leads to the attempt to overthrow, um,14800:10:07.420 --> 00:10:11.800go as far as the undying lands, you know, try and be gods themselves,14900:10:12.330 --> 00:10:16.240which then means Luminor is destroyed. So another kingdom is destroyed,15000:10:16.670 --> 00:10:21.240same pattern you invite in the, your own destruction. You,15100:10:21.540 --> 00:10:25.680um, don't listen to the warnings, you're seduced by what he seems to offer.15200:10:26.340 --> 00:10:29.600You take a fatal step of, um,15300:10:29.960 --> 00:10:34.320creating rings or sailing to the undying lands. And then you lose a kingdom,15400:10:34.720 --> 00:10:36.440a kingdom is destroyed as a result.15500:10:37.300 --> 00:10:42.080So I think what they're doing is running those two stories in sync15600:10:42.140 --> 00:10:43.120or in some way,15700:10:43.190 --> 00:10:47.520meshing them be very interesting to see where they find the connective tissue.15800:10:48.100 --> 00:10:52.000If it's going to be a sort of, this happens first and then that, um,15900:10:52.020 --> 00:10:55.440for a second series or if they're actually gonna run it parallel though,16000:10:55.440 --> 00:10:59.480that has the problem about where is sour gonna be, um,16100:10:59.480 --> 00:11:04.400because he's clearly in a Reon for the first set of16200:11:04.400 --> 00:11:09.280events and clearly in Newman for the second. So just guessing at the moment,16300:11:09.560 --> 00:11:14.200I, I would've thought that they established Newman or in the first series and16400:11:14.240 --> 00:11:18.680possibly saved that for, um, what happens next,16500:11:19.380 --> 00:11:21.120but we'll see. Uh,16600:11:21.620 --> 00:11:26.260so that's the big thing that I've sort of seen as a storyteller is looking at16700:11:26.260 --> 00:11:29.180what you would do if you bring those two, um,16800:11:29.400 --> 00:11:31.820big time gaps into alignment, what,16900:11:31.820 --> 00:11:36.540what story you are end you end up facing and what you would then do with17000:11:36.780 --> 00:11:37.613that story.17100:11:41.320 --> 00:11:46.020And I think the other important aspect, which I've been thinking of, um,17200:11:46.410 --> 00:11:51.020from the point of view of telling a story is about the choice of characters to17300:11:51.170 --> 00:11:52.003feature.17400:11:52.400 --> 00:11:56.560And that's becoming plainer as well as we get more details about who's doing17500:11:56.850 --> 00:11:57.683who's playing what,17600:11:58.500 --> 00:12:02.600and I think what's particularly interesting is the decision to bring in the17700:12:02.730 --> 00:12:05.080Harit as sort of proto hos.17800:12:05.660 --> 00:12:10.240Now the half foots are mentioned in the,17900:12:10.580 --> 00:12:14.000um, sort of talking backstory, but really,18000:12:15.000 --> 00:12:18.280I don't think that he was thought of them being present until the third age,18100:12:18.420 --> 00:12:21.440but let's allow them that little bit of license they've gotta come from18200:12:21.440 --> 00:12:23.160somewhere. Uh, obviously haven't they,18300:12:23.820 --> 00:12:28.040and we do know that there are races of small people18400:12:28.430 --> 00:12:33.280halflings living on the banks of the river because that's where Gollum comes18500:12:33.350 --> 00:12:38.160from and his society hasn't just sprung out of nowhere when he finds, uh,18600:12:38.160 --> 00:12:42.240the one ring in the river. So I can see exactly why they're doing that.18700:12:42.380 --> 00:12:46.920It sounds perfectly good idea, but from a storytelling point of view,18800:12:47.760 --> 00:12:52.560I think that this is possibly an attempt to conquer the most18900:12:52.640 --> 00:12:55.800pressing problem that they have, which is,19000:12:57.310 --> 00:12:59.970do we care about elves?19100:13:00.350 --> 00:13:05.290Do we care about high races of men speaking19200:13:05.290 --> 00:13:06.730in rather more formal language?19300:13:07.190 --> 00:13:11.810That's always the problem about adaptations of high fantasy is where do we,19400:13:11.810 --> 00:13:14.770as human beings connect in Lord of the rings,19500:13:14.830 --> 00:13:17.130we connect at the level of the hobbits.19600:13:18.590 --> 00:13:22.970So introducing hobbits or smaller people into the story,19700:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.810give us a relatable level.19800:13:26.560 --> 00:13:31.210What is interesting is how much these people will be the drivers19900:13:31.350 --> 00:13:33.810of the story, clearly photos journey.20000:13:34.710 --> 00:13:37.930And those of his companions is the, uh,20100:13:38.030 --> 00:13:39.770the substance of Lord of the rings.20200:13:41.230 --> 00:13:44.970But with the material from the second age, they're not there.20300:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.450They aren't the people, uh,20400:13:48.520 --> 00:13:52.570driving the forging of the w rings or the downfall of Newman.20500:13:53.390 --> 00:13:58.330So what little we do know about this is that one20600:13:58.330 --> 00:14:02.570of the characters who are in the smaller people, um,20700:14:02.570 --> 00:14:07.370bracket is Noy brand Brandy foot played by Markella Kavana20800:14:08.550 --> 00:14:13.060and she is Brandy foot sounds like one of these20900:14:13.490 --> 00:14:18.340port Manto words, Brandy wine, proud for all the rest of it.21000:14:18.360 --> 00:14:20.980So you see where that came from. Um,21100:14:21.920 --> 00:14:26.060and we know that she and a close friend,21200:14:26.230 --> 00:14:29.900poppy proud fellow played by Megan, Richard, um,21300:14:31.100 --> 00:14:35.740discover a man fallen a bit like a flaming meteor from the sky who's played by21400:14:35.840 --> 00:14:39.940an called Daniel Wayman. Now I'm sure this will all be revealed very soon,21500:14:39.960 --> 00:14:41.740but if I was a betting person,21600:14:42.500 --> 00:14:47.500I would reckon that possibly that character could be sour possibly,21700:14:47.640 --> 00:14:51.280cuz that would fit with the idea of like a fallen angel, but we'll find out out.21800:14:51.980 --> 00:14:56.800So it may be that they're introducing the hobbits as sort of behind21900:14:56.800 --> 00:15:00.000the scenes movers and shakers. I E um,22000:15:00.020 --> 00:15:02.440if you think of sour being a bit like the ring,22100:15:03.980 --> 00:15:08.760the role of the ring is to bring evil into different people's lives in Lord of22200:15:08.760 --> 00:15:12.960the rings. Sarah does that, um, in the second age.22300:15:13.340 --> 00:15:18.200So it could be in that they are, you know, mistakenly, um,22400:15:18.510 --> 00:15:22.400from their point of view, introducing evil when they really didn't mean it,22500:15:22.750 --> 00:15:26.840that would be an interesting direction to take. And of course there's a,22600:15:26.840 --> 00:15:31.360another possibility, there were so many possibilities that the fallen,22700:15:31.980 --> 00:15:33.440um, man,22800:15:33.500 --> 00:15:38.160the naked man that could also be thinking it through a reference to one of the22900:15:38.160 --> 00:15:41.760wizards, maybe even Gander. Um, he, isn't sort of,23000:15:42.100 --> 00:15:45.720as far as the text are concerned, present during the second age, really,23100:15:45.740 --> 00:15:49.360but he's alive, uh, because he's one of these, um,23200:15:49.760 --> 00:15:54.600spiritual creatures as opposed to a natural born human lifespan23300:15:54.600 --> 00:15:58.840type person and looking at the last, the trailers,23400:15:58.840 --> 00:16:03.200there was a definitely a touch of Gand off the gray about the actor playing that23500:16:03.200 --> 00:16:07.380part. So, um, we know that the, uh,23600:16:07.410 --> 00:16:11.340Gand off has a friendship with the, uh,23700:16:11.520 --> 00:16:14.540the habits that started on before the time of photo.23800:16:14.640 --> 00:16:17.740And Billbo so maybe we're going to see the beginning of that.23900:16:17.740 --> 00:16:22.660That would be an interesting, uh, an interesting development. No,24000:16:22.660 --> 00:16:26.340it of course what the problem is. He can't really intervene, um,24100:16:26.640 --> 00:16:27.860in the major plots,24200:16:28.000 --> 00:16:32.220unless it's very subtle and behind the scenes because it's not there in the24300:16:32.220 --> 00:16:36.980appendices, but we'll see. But there is an attempt here to,24400:16:38.600 --> 00:16:41.040I think, make us relate to these characters,24500:16:41.040 --> 00:16:42.960which I think is absolutely necessary.24600:16:44.270 --> 00:16:48.520What I'm worrying about is where their story goes,24700:16:49.750 --> 00:16:54.480because it seems as though one of the main drivers of this series is goad.24800:16:55.060 --> 00:16:58.400We know goad story. So let's have a look at goad.24900:16:59.820 --> 00:17:04.270We have met her in Lord of the rings as the25000:17:04.450 --> 00:17:06.310mature VIN lady.25100:17:07.510 --> 00:17:11.300She's already very old by the second age.25200:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.500So casting her as a younger actress. Again, we could see why,25300:17:14.600 --> 00:17:18.660but she's pretty old, already thousands of years old. Um,25400:17:18.760 --> 00:17:23.700and she originally comes from the undying lands as part of the Exodus25500:17:23.700 --> 00:17:26.420of the ELs from that place. Uh, she,25600:17:29.030 --> 00:17:31.750I would say that the Exodus of the elves is, is,25700:17:32.170 --> 00:17:36.590is a shameful episode in health history because it involves,25800:17:37.170 --> 00:17:40.750um, <inaudible> battles between Elvin families.25900:17:40.960 --> 00:17:45.350She's sort of a little bit aside from that, but still that whole episode is,26000:17:45.970 --> 00:17:50.640is, is very fraught. And, um, um, people,26100:17:50.940 --> 00:17:55.280you know, there is a sense of the greed of fi who's the original26200:17:56.210 --> 00:17:59.200Elvin craftsman who makes the silver reels. So the,26300:17:59.200 --> 00:18:03.360the Exor is actually driven by a sense of pride again,26400:18:03.630 --> 00:18:05.840over the things that have been created,26500:18:06.200 --> 00:18:11.160a wish to get out from under the thumb of the way the undying lands26600:18:11.820 --> 00:18:12.653are governed.26700:18:23.670 --> 00:18:28.410So in GLA you have, um, an elf maiden, who's already had a very long history.26800:18:30.150 --> 00:18:33.690She, um, in the second age,26900:18:33.930 --> 00:18:36.530I mean she comes to meet the person.27000:18:36.590 --> 00:18:39.010She eventually marries who Kell born.27100:18:39.390 --> 00:18:42.810And if you look at talking's writings, uh,27200:18:42.820 --> 00:18:47.530there is a number of different versions of where they live and when they live.27300:18:48.110 --> 00:18:52.170But again, this is things you'll find in the silver Meridian, but,27400:18:52.170 --> 00:18:53.930and also finding the unfinished tales.27500:18:55.230 --> 00:19:00.130So they are present at the same time as the forging of the27600:19:00.180 --> 00:19:03.250rings. And of course, collateral ends up with one of them.27700:19:05.580 --> 00:19:09.680So she's clearly gonna be a major person in this series,27800:19:11.640 --> 00:19:15.690but how human is she,27900:19:16.350 --> 00:19:18.810if she is this person of great power,28000:19:19.270 --> 00:19:24.130if she is this person who has had all these thousands of years to grow and28100:19:24.190 --> 00:19:25.690mature and gain her wisdom,28200:19:26.740 --> 00:19:31.370she's less relatable to you and me isn't she than an a Hoit28300:19:32.150 --> 00:19:34.010that's, that's one of the problems.28400:19:34.010 --> 00:19:37.690It's why I think it's one of the reasons why people find the so Meridian more28500:19:37.690 --> 00:19:42.570difficult to read is because it's about heroic figures done in a28600:19:42.570 --> 00:19:43.530historical way,28700:19:44.030 --> 00:19:48.890rather than in relatable way of the adventures of small people in a big world.28800:19:49.830 --> 00:19:53.530So that's the problem they have to tackle as writers.28900:19:53.890 --> 00:19:58.450I can see strategies they're taking. So using the hos,29000:19:58.750 --> 00:20:02.290making collateral younger. And of course,29100:20:02.320 --> 00:20:05.210what we yet to see is quite what they do with the new Menor.29200:20:06.600 --> 00:20:09.010This will be fascinating.29300:20:09.010 --> 00:20:12.010And it's where it might end up in getting of Thrones territory,29400:20:13.040 --> 00:20:17.290because Muriel as the forced wife of our,29500:20:18.950 --> 00:20:23.640um, clearly there's more potential there for,29600:20:23.940 --> 00:20:26.870um, more adult material.29700:20:27.790 --> 00:20:28.950I think that the,29800:20:29.970 --> 00:20:34.830the series is going to try and stay in family watching territory, but still the,29900:20:35.570 --> 00:20:36.510the, uh,30000:20:37.490 --> 00:20:41.310the tone of that story of its tragic trajectory does seem30100:20:43.520 --> 00:20:48.280outside the redemptive arc that you get in Lord of the rings.30200:20:50.890 --> 00:20:55.370I think that's a real that's that's, that is a big challenge.30300:20:56.110 --> 00:21:01.090So maybe that is why they are introducing completely new30400:21:01.340 --> 00:21:02.173characters.30500:21:03.750 --> 00:21:08.610And among those new characters is possibly the one I really looking forward30600:21:08.610 --> 00:21:12.130to seeing is a female Wolf called DSA. So,30700:21:12.130 --> 00:21:16.850whereas in the Hobbit films of Peter Jackson, we got a couple of,30800:21:17.270 --> 00:21:18.103uh,30900:21:18.420 --> 00:21:22.290Wolff women in the sort of background characters looks like they've actually got31000:21:22.350 --> 00:21:24.050one as a foreground character.31100:21:24.070 --> 00:21:28.770So I think another conclusion I've come to as a sort of storyteller31200:21:28.950 --> 00:21:33.530is the effort has been made to foreground really interesting female characters,31300:21:33.600 --> 00:21:37.330because it's clear that when talking was writing, um,31400:21:37.430 --> 00:21:41.570he wasn't thinking in terms of having leading female characters in his,31500:21:42.230 --> 00:21:46.130uh, novels, it just wasn't part of the way he thought.31600:21:47.070 --> 00:21:51.570And so this generation is taking on the challenge to work out complex character31700:21:51.680 --> 00:21:53.530arcs for the women.31800:21:53.830 --> 00:21:58.530So hopefully we'll get some people who will be up there with air win Arwin and31900:21:58.530 --> 00:21:59.110collateral,32000:21:59.110 --> 00:22:03.890so that we've got more female talking characters to talk about in future.32100:22:05.190 --> 00:22:08.090So that's my little, uh,32200:22:08.450 --> 00:22:11.970overview just prior to the series coming out,32300:22:12.270 --> 00:22:17.210we will be dipping back into review the early episodes and then32400:22:17.210 --> 00:22:20.770an overview of the end of the first se season.32500:22:21.430 --> 00:22:26.370And I think really the thing that I want to stop with is what would32600:22:26.370 --> 00:22:28.450you have done if you were given the,32700:22:30.280 --> 00:22:32.980the task of writing this, it's such an enormous task.32800:22:33.410 --> 00:22:35.460They're not going to please everybody.32900:22:36.360 --> 00:22:40.500And I've been thinking about it ever since I heard this series was coming out,33000:22:40.500 --> 00:22:42.700just thinking, well, what would I do? Uh,33100:22:42.860 --> 00:22:47.620I think I probably panic <laugh> because of the expectations that are33200:22:47.620 --> 00:22:51.340weighing on me, but it, uh, this sort little exercise of working out,33300:22:51.340 --> 00:22:55.980what they're doing has actually been very revealing as to how creatives are33400:22:55.980 --> 00:22:57.140thinking about this.33500:22:57.400 --> 00:23:01.940And so fingers crossed that what they've actually put together has picked up33600:23:03.040 --> 00:23:07.300the, the sort of the idea of making it relatable, finding good story arcs,33700:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.900um, bringing together the events, which are central to the second age,33800:23:12.240 --> 00:23:16.860to get away from the feeling that this is a kind of game of33900:23:16.940 --> 00:23:19.860Throne's light. Um, that would be horrible.34000:23:20.670 --> 00:23:23.660Let's hope they've actually kept the spirit of talking,34100:23:23.870 --> 00:23:27.940which I think centers on somebody with Hobbit values,34200:23:28.200 --> 00:23:32.100not necessarily a Hobbit, but somebody who is earthed,34300:23:32.680 --> 00:23:36.140who is appreciates nature, who is, who is a,34400:23:36.540 --> 00:23:41.420a character where we can sort of settle down and see the events of the34500:23:41.420 --> 00:23:42.940world with them. That's what I'm hoping.34600:23:43.200 --> 00:23:47.760Cuz that seems to be really one of the huge reasons for the longevity34700:23:48.020 --> 00:23:52.980of token's fantasy. Now I always end these,34800:23:54.120 --> 00:23:54.740uh,34900:23:54.740 --> 00:23:59.260podcasts with where in all the fantasy world is the best place to be something.35000:24:00.210 --> 00:24:02.820This one's a bit of a challenge, um,35100:24:03.330 --> 00:24:06.970because I've been trying to guess what the main themes are,35200:24:06.990 --> 00:24:11.490but clearly one theme I think I can put my money on would be where in all the35300:24:11.490 --> 00:24:16.170fantasy worlds is the best place to be a maker of35400:24:16.380 --> 00:24:20.610rings. I don't think that is in, uh,35500:24:20.610 --> 00:24:24.570the world of Lord of the rings because what happens to you is not,35600:24:25.150 --> 00:24:26.890not very good. Uh,35700:24:26.890 --> 00:24:31.850you get sort of sucked in by your creation or find you've put most of35800:24:31.850 --> 00:24:35.250your power in it. So you becomes your Achilles hill, very bad idea,35900:24:35.280 --> 00:24:38.130sour on you should have thought this through anyway. Um,36000:24:38.190 --> 00:24:41.890so where would be a better place in all the fancy worlds to be a maker of rings36100:24:42.390 --> 00:24:45.970and the other place where rings are made in the world of the inklings of course,36200:24:46.030 --> 00:24:48.690is in the magician's nephew. Um,36300:24:49.500 --> 00:24:51.490uncle Andrew makes some rings.36400:24:51.830 --> 00:24:56.130He starts off by sending Guinea pigs off and it takes you to the wood between36500:24:56.130 --> 00:25:01.130the worlds. So the, the ability to make those rings,36600:25:01.200 --> 00:25:04.330that take you to a place where you can travel to other worlds,36700:25:04.830 --> 00:25:07.970sounds like a really good place to be a ring maker.36800:25:08.710 --> 00:25:13.170So that would be my pick if I was going to be without cuz uncle Andrew is36900:25:13.170 --> 00:25:17.930selfish and evil, um, and unleashes the Empress J on, on,37000:25:18.030 --> 00:25:21.290uh, London, through having sent the children to her world,37100:25:21.840 --> 00:25:25.650leaving all that aside <laugh> and just doing the bit where you get to travel.37200:25:26.190 --> 00:25:27.370That's what I'd like to be.37300:25:27.510 --> 00:25:31.130I'd like to make rings and go to the wood between the worlds and have the37400:25:31.130 --> 00:25:36.090ability to jump into the pools and visit other worlds and take somebody with me37500:25:36.090 --> 00:25:40.250as well, because this isn't just for one person this ring. Anyway,37600:25:40.270 --> 00:25:44.330so that is my thought on making rings of power. Thank you very much.37700:25:54.470 --> 00:25:56.370For listening to mythmakers podcast,37800:25:57.240 --> 00:26:01.970brought to you by the Oxford center for fantasy visit Oxford center37900:26:02.030 --> 00:26:04.610for fantasy.org to join in the fun.38000:26:05.240 --> 00:26:09.930Find out about our online courses in person stays in Oxford plus38100:26:10.140 --> 00:26:12.330visit our shop for great gifts.38200:26:12.920 --> 00:26:17.410Tell a friend and subscribe wherever you find your favorite podcasts38300:26:17.680 --> 00:26:18.290worldwide.