Rings of Power - The Story Perspective (Amazon Prime)

WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:07.990 Hello, and welcome to myth makers. 2 00:00:08.620 --> 00:00:13.190 Myth makers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy creatives 3 00:00:13.300 --> 00:00:17.990 brought to you by the Oxford center for fantasy. My name is Julia Golden. 4 00:00:18.370 --> 00:00:20.910 I'm the director of the center, uh, 5 00:00:20.990 --> 00:00:24.750 a keen talking fan and also an author in my own. Right. 6 00:00:25.650 --> 00:00:30.310 And today I thought I would dedicate this episode to what I've gleaned 7 00:00:30.810 --> 00:00:35.070 as a storyteller about the upcoming Amazon series 8 00:00:35.680 --> 00:00:39.230 rings of power. Now, there is plenty of information out there. 9 00:00:39.290 --> 00:00:43.110 The publicity teams are in full throttle. Um, 10 00:00:43.130 --> 00:00:46.350 so you can find out lots of information about the, uh, 11 00:00:46.350 --> 00:00:49.350 the actors who are playing the parts and, um, 12 00:00:49.460 --> 00:00:51.430 news from the cast and that kind of thing. 13 00:00:52.050 --> 00:00:56.950 So I thought our added value was to look at it as storytellers and 14 00:00:56.950 --> 00:00:58.030 what we might, um, 15 00:00:58.290 --> 00:01:03.190 expect and the decisions that might have been taken in order to write this 16 00:01:03.190 --> 00:01:04.110 particular series. 17 00:01:05.090 --> 00:01:09.870 Cuz I think is an absolutely fascinating challenge that they they're facing. 18 00:01:11.140 --> 00:01:15.630 Most of their material is drawn from the appendices in, uh, 19 00:01:16.090 --> 00:01:18.590 the return of the king. And in fact, 20 00:01:18.650 --> 00:01:23.630 the information in that is very slight. So they've had a very blank canvas, 21 00:01:24.450 --> 00:01:25.510 um, to work on, 22 00:01:26.050 --> 00:01:30.870 but the absolute key thing they've done and I can understand why 23 00:01:30.870 --> 00:01:34.830 they've done it is they've truncated the time period. 24 00:01:34.970 --> 00:01:37.870 So if you just look at the list of the people, uh, 25 00:01:38.190 --> 00:01:41.790 involved the characters involved and you look at the, uh, 26 00:01:41.890 --> 00:01:45.030 the name of the piece, you can see what they've done. 27 00:01:45.730 --> 00:01:50.070 So in the second age, there are two main events, 28 00:01:51.070 --> 00:01:54.480 both of which involve Sarah. The first, 29 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:58.720 which happens earlier on is the establishment of, uh, Elvin kingdom, 30 00:01:59.780 --> 00:02:03.880 uh, just outside Kado or more Maria, uh, 31 00:02:04.090 --> 00:02:07.880 where Keller BOR, who is one of the leading craftsmen of the era, 32 00:02:08.630 --> 00:02:12.080 he's in charge of that sort of area. And he is, uh, 33 00:02:12.640 --> 00:02:16.800 creating rings of power and into this place comes sour 34 00:02:17.540 --> 00:02:20.400 who, uh, appears quite a sort of attractive figure. 35 00:02:21.100 --> 00:02:23.760 And because he is also a great craftsman, 36 00:02:24.340 --> 00:02:29.200 he shows the elves how to make these rings and that's where the rock gets 37 00:02:29.220 --> 00:02:34.200 in. Uh, cuz he twists it for evil. And it's also the time where he, 38 00:02:35.020 --> 00:02:36.040 um, he, 39 00:02:36.140 --> 00:02:40.800 he forges the one ring that dominates the story of the Lord of the rings. 40 00:02:41.700 --> 00:02:45.960 So there's that SI that whole sort of nexus of characters, 41 00:02:46.220 --> 00:02:49.000 it includes go includes Aron. 42 00:02:49.220 --> 00:02:54.040 It includes skill goad more about all these in a bit later. Um, 43 00:02:55.140 --> 00:02:59.000 but that all happens in terms of the time of, 44 00:02:59.040 --> 00:03:03.380 of the second age, that all happens in about 1600. 45 00:03:04.320 --> 00:03:08.820 So if you just wanna lodge it in your head as like the equivalent of tu days 46 00:03:09.200 --> 00:03:11.060 for us now, 47 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:15.980 the second area of major activity in that age is 48 00:03:15.980 --> 00:03:19.940 about the fall of new Manor. Up to that point. 49 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:25.380 Um, new Manor was set apart as an island for the sort of the good guys, 50 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:27.340 the good humans, the good men, 51 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:32.780 and it was set between middle earth and the undying lands 52 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:35.260 as a sort of special dispensation. 53 00:03:35.890 --> 00:03:39.740 It's a kind of Atlantis and that gives you a hint of what happens there. 54 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:45.740 And there's a whole series of very interesting Kings in that, uh, place. 55 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:49.060 If you want to read more about them, there's a lot in the unfinished tales, 56 00:03:49.060 --> 00:03:53.500 which are really well worth reading, including a fascinating husband and wife, 57 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.500 um, story, which is quite unusual in talking anyway. 58 00:03:58.920 --> 00:03:59.753 Um, 59 00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:04.620 it seems as though where they've settled as the script writers is at the end of 60 00:04:04.620 --> 00:04:06.060 that. Um, 61 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:09.700 and here we have a story about Muriel. 62 00:04:10.310 --> 00:04:15.260 Who's one of the name characters. She is the last queen of that place. 63 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:16.980 She was the legitimate queen, 64 00:04:17.760 --> 00:04:21.580 but was forced into marriage with our Faron. 65 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:27.380 And it's his interaction with Sarah that really causes and he a 66 00:04:27.380 --> 00:04:30.380 plot spoiler, the downfall of Luminor. 67 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:34.860 So she's quite a tragic figure if they're playing it straight. Um, 68 00:04:34.860 --> 00:04:38.060 because she's in this force marriage and, you know, 69 00:04:38.500 --> 00:04:43.420 disaster strikes and new Manor is punished for the arrogance 70 00:04:43.520 --> 00:04:47.860 of a because SA again comes in and 71 00:04:48.260 --> 00:04:52.420 persuades him that he didn't Abey. Uh, 72 00:04:52.420 --> 00:04:55.500 the God's commands. It's a bit like a garden of Eden story, 73 00:04:56.050 --> 00:05:00.420 very much like a garden of Eden story that he can sell to the undying lands, 74 00:05:00.880 --> 00:05:01.713 uh, 75 00:05:01.810 --> 00:05:06.420 that forbidden fruit is what our fire and sinks his teeth 76 00:05:06.650 --> 00:05:07.483 into. 77 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:12.260 And I punishment Luminor is sunk and the remnant 78 00:05:12.970 --> 00:05:17.740 escapes and they are the founders of the kingdom of Goor the, uh, 79 00:05:17.930 --> 00:05:21.060 ancestors of, uh, Aragon and so on. 80 00:05:22.200 --> 00:05:26.580 But the important thing about this is all of this happens 81 00:05:27.080 --> 00:05:30.340 in the year 32 55. 82 00:05:30.760 --> 00:05:35.500 So if I've said the events of the 40 of the one ring is back in two 83 00:05:35.590 --> 00:05:39.340 times, you know, that 32 55 hasn't come, 84 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:42.140 that's probably only appeared in something like star Trek, 85 00:05:42.490 --> 00:05:44.460 it's thousands of years in the future. 86 00:05:45.760 --> 00:05:48.740 So in order to bring those two stories together, 87 00:05:49.090 --> 00:05:51.340 they've crushed the timelines. 88 00:05:51.960 --> 00:05:55.940 So the second age is really sort of squashed together, uh, 89 00:05:55.940 --> 00:05:59.960 or I assume they're doing that rather than some time slip thing. Um, 90 00:06:00.770 --> 00:06:03.680 would, that would be very hard to tell. So let's, 91 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:07.600 I think they must have sort of moved one set of things from there and one sets 92 00:06:07.670 --> 00:06:10.720 from the future as it were, and they've brought them in alignment. 93 00:06:11.900 --> 00:06:15.440 Now what happens as a storyteller when you do that? Well, 94 00:06:15.440 --> 00:06:19.960 I think it's really interesting to look at it in parallel tracks like that, 95 00:06:19.960 --> 00:06:23.240 because what you see is the same pattern. 96 00:06:24.460 --> 00:06:29.440 So Sarah starts the second age defeated because his great sort 97 00:06:29.440 --> 00:06:33.440 of Lord, uh, the original bad guy, 98 00:06:33.440 --> 00:06:35.520 Mor goth has been defeated and chained. 99 00:06:36.660 --> 00:06:41.320 And so he's like a remnant of that power. So he's in a, on the back foot, 100 00:06:42.220 --> 00:06:46.680 he comes to the ELs with promising. He's gonna be a good boy. 101 00:06:46.830 --> 00:06:51.480 He's gonna show them how to do all these wonderful crafts and the overlord king 102 00:06:52.060 --> 00:06:56.360 who is Gil Gallard doesn't believe him. So here's the skeptic, 103 00:06:57.540 --> 00:06:59.720 but because he's such a good artifact, sir, 104 00:07:00.740 --> 00:07:05.160 the VIN Smiths of a Regian are persuaded to listen 105 00:07:05.940 --> 00:07:10.880 and to invite him in and steal his craft or share their craft secrets. 106 00:07:11.700 --> 00:07:16.320 And so you've got a seduction going on and that word is actually used in the 107 00:07:16.770 --> 00:07:19.280 appendices to describe that relationship. 108 00:07:19.310 --> 00:07:23.920 It's a seduction let's hope they don't take that too literal in the Amazon 109 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:28.480 series. Um, I it's meant by talking in a sort of intellectual seduction way. 110 00:07:29.860 --> 00:07:33.840 And so Sarah appears as the tempter then, cause he's holding out knowledge. 111 00:07:34.190 --> 00:07:37.200 Here we go back to the garden of Eden again, 112 00:07:37.270 --> 00:07:41.360 it's the fruits of the tree of knowledge. And so 113 00:07:42.940 --> 00:07:47.550 what then happens is basically the gig is up after a while 114 00:07:47.860 --> 00:07:51.670 because killer Brior, who's the main, um, 115 00:07:51.840 --> 00:07:53.230 Smith in that region, 116 00:07:53.770 --> 00:07:57.310 he works out or he sees the plot. 117 00:07:57.810 --> 00:08:01.870 The rings have give you access as you a member from Lord of the rings rings, 118 00:08:01.870 --> 00:08:03.830 give you access to the mind of SA. 119 00:08:04.330 --> 00:08:09.230 So he sees what's going on and they realize they 120 00:08:09.230 --> 00:08:13.390 have to defeat sour. And there is a battle there, 121 00:08:14.090 --> 00:08:18.670 um, for supremacy and that's when a re is basically wiped out. Um, 122 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:23.710 Elron flees with the remnant to set up, um, 123 00:08:24.620 --> 00:08:28.990 Dale and I'm afraid the future for killer BBA. Isn't that bright. 124 00:08:29.770 --> 00:08:33.670 So that sort of one set of battles. So you've got the pattern. 125 00:08:33.760 --> 00:08:37.790 There is Sarah has tempt to first of all, um, 126 00:08:38.060 --> 00:08:42.950 despite the warnings is embraced and welcomed people, 127 00:08:43.050 --> 00:08:47.950 see what he's up to leads to a clash leads to a battle that same 128 00:08:47.950 --> 00:08:50.310 pattern is repeated in Luminor. 129 00:08:51.370 --> 00:08:53.910 So he's first of all, um, 130 00:08:53.980 --> 00:08:58.120 brought there because a thinks he, he, 131 00:08:58.300 --> 00:09:02.440 he sails to middle earth and to, 132 00:09:02.540 --> 00:09:05.760 to Umar in fact, which we've not yet seen. Um, and 133 00:09:07.450 --> 00:09:09.640 Sarah sort of, you know, 134 00:09:09.690 --> 00:09:14.200 frustrates himself and sort of claims to be overwhelmed by his, you know, 135 00:09:14.260 --> 00:09:18.600 the marvels of his fleet and everything, but he's playing a longer game here. 136 00:09:18.980 --> 00:09:23.800 So he's welcomed to Luminor where he then spreads his poison. 137 00:09:24.330 --> 00:09:26.640 There are people saying, look out warning. 138 00:09:27.590 --> 00:09:29.400 He's not only he's cracked up to be. 139 00:09:29.400 --> 00:09:33.120 So there are people doing the Gill galled role of warning against him, 140 00:09:34.380 --> 00:09:37.960 but that isn't obviously going down well with R on. He, 141 00:09:38.020 --> 00:09:41.960 he wants to believe his top king, uh, 142 00:09:42.060 --> 00:09:46.280 his pride is his downfall. And so, 143 00:09:47.220 --> 00:09:52.120 um, his, uh, his plots aren't unmastered until too late. 144 00:09:53.060 --> 00:09:56.080 So the seduction has gone on and again, 145 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:58.640 that word is used in the appendices. 146 00:09:59.580 --> 00:10:01.440 He seduces the people 147 00:10:03.220 --> 00:10:07.120 and that is what leads to the attempt to overthrow, um, 148 00:10:07.420 --> 00:10:11.800 go as far as the undying lands, you know, try and be gods themselves, 149 00:10:12.330 --> 00:10:16.240 which then means Luminor is destroyed. So another kingdom is destroyed, 150 00:10:16.670 --> 00:10:21.240 same pattern you invite in the, your own destruction. You, 151 00:10:21.540 --> 00:10:25.680 um, don't listen to the warnings, you're seduced by what he seems to offer. 152 00:10:26.340 --> 00:10:29.600 You take a fatal step of, um, 153 00:10:29.960 --> 00:10:34.320 creating rings or sailing to the undying lands. And then you lose a kingdom, 154 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:36.440 a kingdom is destroyed as a result. 155 00:10:37.300 --> 00:10:42.080 So I think what they're doing is running those two stories in sync 156 00:10:42.140 --> 00:10:43.120 or in some way, 157 00:10:43.190 --> 00:10:47.520 meshing them be very interesting to see where they find the connective tissue. 158 00:10:48.100 --> 00:10:52.000 If it's going to be a sort of, this happens first and then that, um, 159 00:10:52.020 --> 00:10:55.440 for a second series or if they're actually gonna run it parallel though, 160 00:10:55.440 --> 00:10:59.480 that has the problem about where is sour gonna be, um, 161 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:04.400 because he's clearly in a Reon for the first set of 162 00:11:04.400 --> 00:11:09.280 events and clearly in Newman for the second. So just guessing at the moment, 163 00:11:09.560 --> 00:11:14.200 I, I would've thought that they established Newman or in the first series and 164 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:18.680 possibly saved that for, um, what happens next, 165 00:11:19.380 --> 00:11:21.120 but we'll see. Uh, 166 00:11:21.620 --> 00:11:26.260 so that's the big thing that I've sort of seen as a storyteller is looking at 167 00:11:26.260 --> 00:11:29.180 what you would do if you bring those two, um, 168 00:11:29.400 --> 00:11:31.820 big time gaps into alignment, what, 169 00:11:31.820 --> 00:11:36.540 what story you are end you end up facing and what you would then do with 170 00:11:36.780 --> 00:11:37.613 that story. 171 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:46.020 And I think the other important aspect, which I've been thinking of, um, 172 00:11:46.410 --> 00:11:51.020 from the point of view of telling a story is about the choice of characters to 173 00:11:51.170 --> 00:11:52.003 feature. 174 00:11:52.400 --> 00:11:56.560 And that's becoming plainer as well as we get more details about who's doing 175 00:11:56.850 --> 00:11:57.683 who's playing what, 176 00:11:58.500 --> 00:12:02.600 and I think what's particularly interesting is the decision to bring in the 177 00:12:02.730 --> 00:12:05.080 Harit as sort of proto hos. 178 00:12:05.660 --> 00:12:10.240 Now the half foots are mentioned in the, 179 00:12:10.580 --> 00:12:14.000 um, sort of talking backstory, but really, 180 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:18.280 I don't think that he was thought of them being present until the third age, 181 00:12:18.420 --> 00:12:21.440 but let's allow them that little bit of license they've gotta come from 182 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:23.160 somewhere. Uh, obviously haven't they, 183 00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:28.040 and we do know that there are races of small people 184 00:12:28.430 --> 00:12:33.280 halflings living on the banks of the river because that's where Gollum comes 185 00:12:33.350 --> 00:12:38.160 from and his society hasn't just sprung out of nowhere when he finds, uh, 186 00:12:38.160 --> 00:12:42.240 the one ring in the river. So I can see exactly why they're doing that. 187 00:12:42.380 --> 00:12:46.920 It sounds perfectly good idea, but from a storytelling point of view, 188 00:12:47.760 --> 00:12:52.560 I think that this is possibly an attempt to conquer the most 189 00:12:52.640 --> 00:12:55.800 pressing problem that they have, which is, 190 00:12:57.310 --> 00:12:59.970 do we care about elves? 191 00:13:00.350 --> 00:13:05.290 Do we care about high races of men speaking 192 00:13:05.290 --> 00:13:06.730 in rather more formal language? 193 00:13:07.190 --> 00:13:11.810 That's always the problem about adaptations of high fantasy is where do we, 194 00:13:11.810 --> 00:13:14.770 as human beings connect in Lord of the rings, 195 00:13:14.830 --> 00:13:17.130 we connect at the level of the hobbits. 196 00:13:18.590 --> 00:13:22.970 So introducing hobbits or smaller people into the story, 197 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.810 give us a relatable level. 198 00:13:26.560 --> 00:13:31.210 What is interesting is how much these people will be the drivers 199 00:13:31.350 --> 00:13:33.810 of the story, clearly photos journey. 200 00:13:34.710 --> 00:13:37.930 And those of his companions is the, uh, 201 00:13:38.030 --> 00:13:39.770 the substance of Lord of the rings. 202 00:13:41.230 --> 00:13:44.970 But with the material from the second age, they're not there. 203 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.450 They aren't the people, uh, 204 00:13:48.520 --> 00:13:52.570 driving the forging of the w rings or the downfall of Newman. 205 00:13:53.390 --> 00:13:58.330 So what little we do know about this is that one 206 00:13:58.330 --> 00:14:02.570 of the characters who are in the smaller people, um, 207 00:14:02.570 --> 00:14:07.370 bracket is Noy brand Brandy foot played by Markella Kavana 208 00:14:08.550 --> 00:14:13.060 and she is Brandy foot sounds like one of these 209 00:14:13.490 --> 00:14:18.340 port Manto words, Brandy wine, proud for all the rest of it. 210 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:20.980 So you see where that came from. Um, 211 00:14:21.920 --> 00:14:26.060 and we know that she and a close friend, 212 00:14:26.230 --> 00:14:29.900 poppy proud fellow played by Megan, Richard, um, 213 00:14:31.100 --> 00:14:35.740 discover a man fallen a bit like a flaming meteor from the sky who's played by 214 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:39.940 an called Daniel Wayman. Now I'm sure this will all be revealed very soon, 215 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:41.740 but if I was a betting person, 216 00:14:42.500 --> 00:14:47.500 I would reckon that possibly that character could be sour possibly, 217 00:14:47.640 --> 00:14:51.280 cuz that would fit with the idea of like a fallen angel, but we'll find out out. 218 00:14:51.980 --> 00:14:56.800 So it may be that they're introducing the hobbits as sort of behind 219 00:14:56.800 --> 00:15:00.000 the scenes movers and shakers. I E um, 220 00:15:00.020 --> 00:15:02.440 if you think of sour being a bit like the ring, 221 00:15:03.980 --> 00:15:08.760 the role of the ring is to bring evil into different people's lives in Lord of 222 00:15:08.760 --> 00:15:12.960 the rings. Sarah does that, um, in the second age. 223 00:15:13.340 --> 00:15:18.200 So it could be in that they are, you know, mistakenly, um, 224 00:15:18.510 --> 00:15:22.400 from their point of view, introducing evil when they really didn't mean it, 225 00:15:22.750 --> 00:15:26.840 that would be an interesting direction to take. And of course there's a, 226 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:31.360 another possibility, there were so many possibilities that the fallen, 227 00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:33.440 um, man, 228 00:15:33.500 --> 00:15:38.160 the naked man that could also be thinking it through a reference to one of the 229 00:15:38.160 --> 00:15:41.760 wizards, maybe even Gander. Um, he, isn't sort of, 230 00:15:42.100 --> 00:15:45.720 as far as the text are concerned, present during the second age, really, 231 00:15:45.740 --> 00:15:49.360 but he's alive, uh, because he's one of these, um, 232 00:15:49.760 --> 00:15:54.600 spiritual creatures as opposed to a natural born human lifespan 233 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:58.840 type person and looking at the last, the trailers, 234 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:03.200 there was a definitely a touch of Gand off the gray about the actor playing that 235 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:07.380 part. So, um, we know that the, uh, 236 00:16:07.410 --> 00:16:11.340 Gand off has a friendship with the, uh, 237 00:16:11.520 --> 00:16:14.540 the habits that started on before the time of photo. 238 00:16:14.640 --> 00:16:17.740 And Billbo so maybe we're going to see the beginning of that. 239 00:16:17.740 --> 00:16:22.660 That would be an interesting, uh, an interesting development. No, 240 00:16:22.660 --> 00:16:26.340 it of course what the problem is. He can't really intervene, um, 241 00:16:26.640 --> 00:16:27.860 in the major plots, 242 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:32.220 unless it's very subtle and behind the scenes because it's not there in the 243 00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:36.980 appendices, but we'll see. But there is an attempt here to, 244 00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:41.040 I think, make us relate to these characters, 245 00:16:41.040 --> 00:16:42.960 which I think is absolutely necessary. 246 00:16:44.270 --> 00:16:48.520 What I'm worrying about is where their story goes, 247 00:16:49.750 --> 00:16:54.480 because it seems as though one of the main drivers of this series is goad. 248 00:16:55.060 --> 00:16:58.400 We know goad story. So let's have a look at goad. 249 00:16:59.820 --> 00:17:04.270 We have met her in Lord of the rings as the 250 00:17:04.450 --> 00:17:06.310 mature VIN lady. 251 00:17:07.510 --> 00:17:11.300 She's already very old by the second age. 252 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.500 So casting her as a younger actress. Again, we could see why, 253 00:17:14.600 --> 00:17:18.660 but she's pretty old, already thousands of years old. Um, 254 00:17:18.760 --> 00:17:23.700 and she originally comes from the undying lands as part of the Exodus 255 00:17:23.700 --> 00:17:26.420 of the ELs from that place. Uh, she, 256 00:17:29.030 --> 00:17:31.750 I would say that the Exodus of the elves is, is, 257 00:17:32.170 --> 00:17:36.590 is a shameful episode in health history because it involves, 258 00:17:37.170 --> 00:17:40.750 um, <inaudible> battles between Elvin families. 259 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:45.350 She's sort of a little bit aside from that, but still that whole episode is, 260 00:17:45.970 --> 00:17:50.640 is, is very fraught. And, um, um, people, 261 00:17:50.940 --> 00:17:55.280 you know, there is a sense of the greed of fi who's the original 262 00:17:56.210 --> 00:17:59.200 Elvin craftsman who makes the silver reels. So the, 263 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:03.360 the Exor is actually driven by a sense of pride again, 264 00:18:03.630 --> 00:18:05.840 over the things that have been created, 265 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:11.160 a wish to get out from under the thumb of the way the undying lands 266 00:18:11.820 --> 00:18:12.653 are governed. 267 00:18:23.670 --> 00:18:28.410 So in GLA you have, um, an elf maiden, who's already had a very long history. 268 00:18:30.150 --> 00:18:33.690 She, um, in the second age, 269 00:18:33.930 --> 00:18:36.530 I mean she comes to meet the person. 270 00:18:36.590 --> 00:18:39.010 She eventually marries who Kell born. 271 00:18:39.390 --> 00:18:42.810 And if you look at talking's writings, uh, 272 00:18:42.820 --> 00:18:47.530 there is a number of different versions of where they live and when they live. 273 00:18:48.110 --> 00:18:52.170 But again, this is things you'll find in the silver Meridian, but, 274 00:18:52.170 --> 00:18:53.930 and also finding the unfinished tales. 275 00:18:55.230 --> 00:19:00.130 So they are present at the same time as the forging of the 276 00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:03.250 rings. And of course, collateral ends up with one of them. 277 00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:09.680 So she's clearly gonna be a major person in this series, 278 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:15.690 but how human is she, 279 00:19:16.350 --> 00:19:18.810 if she is this person of great power, 280 00:19:19.270 --> 00:19:24.130 if she is this person who has had all these thousands of years to grow and 281 00:19:24.190 --> 00:19:25.690 mature and gain her wisdom, 282 00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:31.370 she's less relatable to you and me isn't she than an a Hoit 283 00:19:32.150 --> 00:19:34.010 that's, that's one of the problems. 284 00:19:34.010 --> 00:19:37.690 It's why I think it's one of the reasons why people find the so Meridian more 285 00:19:37.690 --> 00:19:42.570 difficult to read is because it's about heroic figures done in a 286 00:19:42.570 --> 00:19:43.530 historical way, 287 00:19:44.030 --> 00:19:48.890 rather than in relatable way of the adventures of small people in a big world. 288 00:19:49.830 --> 00:19:53.530 So that's the problem they have to tackle as writers. 289 00:19:53.890 --> 00:19:58.450 I can see strategies they're taking. So using the hos, 290 00:19:58.750 --> 00:20:02.290 making collateral younger. And of course, 291 00:20:02.320 --> 00:20:05.210 what we yet to see is quite what they do with the new Menor. 292 00:20:06.600 --> 00:20:09.010 This will be fascinating. 293 00:20:09.010 --> 00:20:12.010 And it's where it might end up in getting of Thrones territory, 294 00:20:13.040 --> 00:20:17.290 because Muriel as the forced wife of our, 295 00:20:18.950 --> 00:20:23.640 um, clearly there's more potential there for, 296 00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:26.870 um, more adult material. 297 00:20:27.790 --> 00:20:28.950 I think that the, 298 00:20:29.970 --> 00:20:34.830 the series is going to try and stay in family watching territory, but still the, 299 00:20:35.570 --> 00:20:36.510 the, uh, 300 00:20:37.490 --> 00:20:41.310 the tone of that story of its tragic trajectory does seem 301 00:20:43.520 --> 00:20:48.280 outside the redemptive arc that you get in Lord of the rings. 302 00:20:50.890 --> 00:20:55.370 I think that's a real that's that's, that is a big challenge. 303 00:20:56.110 --> 00:21:01.090 So maybe that is why they are introducing completely new 304 00:21:01.340 --> 00:21:02.173 characters. 305 00:21:03.750 --> 00:21:08.610 And among those new characters is possibly the one I really looking forward 306 00:21:08.610 --> 00:21:12.130 to seeing is a female Wolf called DSA. So, 307 00:21:12.130 --> 00:21:16.850 whereas in the Hobbit films of Peter Jackson, we got a couple of, 308 00:21:17.270 --> 00:21:18.103 uh, 309 00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:22.290 Wolff women in the sort of background characters looks like they've actually got 310 00:21:22.350 --> 00:21:24.050 one as a foreground character. 311 00:21:24.070 --> 00:21:28.770 So I think another conclusion I've come to as a sort of storyteller 312 00:21:28.950 --> 00:21:33.530 is the effort has been made to foreground really interesting female characters, 313 00:21:33.600 --> 00:21:37.330 because it's clear that when talking was writing, um, 314 00:21:37.430 --> 00:21:41.570 he wasn't thinking in terms of having leading female characters in his, 315 00:21:42.230 --> 00:21:46.130 uh, novels, it just wasn't part of the way he thought. 316 00:21:47.070 --> 00:21:51.570 And so this generation is taking on the challenge to work out complex character 317 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:53.530 arcs for the women. 318 00:21:53.830 --> 00:21:58.530 So hopefully we'll get some people who will be up there with air win Arwin and 319 00:21:58.530 --> 00:21:59.110 collateral, 320 00:21:59.110 --> 00:22:03.890 so that we've got more female talking characters to talk about in future. 321 00:22:05.190 --> 00:22:08.090 So that's my little, uh, 322 00:22:08.450 --> 00:22:11.970 overview just prior to the series coming out, 323 00:22:12.270 --> 00:22:17.210 we will be dipping back into review the early episodes and then 324 00:22:17.210 --> 00:22:20.770 an overview of the end of the first se season. 325 00:22:21.430 --> 00:22:26.370 And I think really the thing that I want to stop with is what would 326 00:22:26.370 --> 00:22:28.450 you have done if you were given the, 327 00:22:30.280 --> 00:22:32.980 the task of writing this, it's such an enormous task. 328 00:22:33.410 --> 00:22:35.460 They're not going to please everybody. 329 00:22:36.360 --> 00:22:40.500 And I've been thinking about it ever since I heard this series was coming out, 330 00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:42.700 just thinking, well, what would I do? Uh, 331 00:22:42.860 --> 00:22:47.620 I think I probably panic <laugh> because of the expectations that are 332 00:22:47.620 --> 00:22:51.340 weighing on me, but it, uh, this sort little exercise of working out, 333 00:22:51.340 --> 00:22:55.980 what they're doing has actually been very revealing as to how creatives are 334 00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:57.140 thinking about this. 335 00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:01.940 And so fingers crossed that what they've actually put together has picked up 336 00:23:03.040 --> 00:23:07.300 the, the sort of the idea of making it relatable, finding good story arcs, 337 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.900 um, bringing together the events, which are central to the second age, 338 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:16.860 to get away from the feeling that this is a kind of game of 339 00:23:16.940 --> 00:23:19.860 Throne's light. Um, that would be horrible. 340 00:23:20.670 --> 00:23:23.660 Let's hope they've actually kept the spirit of talking, 341 00:23:23.870 --> 00:23:27.940 which I think centers on somebody with Hobbit values, 342 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:32.100 not necessarily a Hobbit, but somebody who is earthed, 343 00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:36.140 who is appreciates nature, who is, who is a, 344 00:23:36.540 --> 00:23:41.420 a character where we can sort of settle down and see the events of the 345 00:23:41.420 --> 00:23:42.940 world with them. That's what I'm hoping. 346 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:47.760 Cuz that seems to be really one of the huge reasons for the longevity 347 00:23:48.020 --> 00:23:52.980 of token's fantasy. Now I always end these, 348 00:23:54.120 --> 00:23:54.740 uh, 349 00:23:54.740 --> 00:23:59.260 podcasts with where in all the fantasy world is the best place to be something. 350 00:24:00.210 --> 00:24:02.820 This one's a bit of a challenge, um, 351 00:24:03.330 --> 00:24:06.970 because I've been trying to guess what the main themes are, 352 00:24:06.990 --> 00:24:11.490 but clearly one theme I think I can put my money on would be where in all the 353 00:24:11.490 --> 00:24:16.170 fantasy worlds is the best place to be a maker of 354 00:24:16.380 --> 00:24:20.610 rings. I don't think that is in, uh, 355 00:24:20.610 --> 00:24:24.570 the world of Lord of the rings because what happens to you is not, 356 00:24:25.150 --> 00:24:26.890 not very good. Uh, 357 00:24:26.890 --> 00:24:31.850 you get sort of sucked in by your creation or find you've put most of 358 00:24:31.850 --> 00:24:35.250 your power in it. So you becomes your Achilles hill, very bad idea, 359 00:24:35.280 --> 00:24:38.130 sour on you should have thought this through anyway. Um, 360 00:24:38.190 --> 00:24:41.890 so where would be a better place in all the fancy worlds to be a maker of rings 361 00:24:42.390 --> 00:24:45.970 and the other place where rings are made in the world of the inklings of course, 362 00:24:46.030 --> 00:24:48.690 is in the magician's nephew. Um, 363 00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:51.490 uncle Andrew makes some rings. 364 00:24:51.830 --> 00:24:56.130 He starts off by sending Guinea pigs off and it takes you to the wood between 365 00:24:56.130 --> 00:25:01.130 the worlds. So the, the ability to make those rings, 366 00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:04.330 that take you to a place where you can travel to other worlds, 367 00:25:04.830 --> 00:25:07.970 sounds like a really good place to be a ring maker. 368 00:25:08.710 --> 00:25:13.170 So that would be my pick if I was going to be without cuz uncle Andrew is 369 00:25:13.170 --> 00:25:17.930 selfish and evil, um, and unleashes the Empress J on, on, 370 00:25:18.030 --> 00:25:21.290 uh, London, through having sent the children to her world, 371 00:25:21.840 --> 00:25:25.650 leaving all that aside <laugh> and just doing the bit where you get to travel. 372 00:25:26.190 --> 00:25:27.370 That's what I'd like to be. 373 00:25:27.510 --> 00:25:31.130 I'd like to make rings and go to the wood between the worlds and have the 374 00:25:31.130 --> 00:25:36.090 ability to jump into the pools and visit other worlds and take somebody with me 375 00:25:36.090 --> 00:25:40.250 as well, because this isn't just for one person this ring. Anyway, 376 00:25:40.270 --> 00:25:44.330 so that is my thought on making rings of power. Thank you very much. 377 00:25:54.470 --> 00:25:56.370 For listening to mythmakers podcast, 378 00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:01.970 brought to you by the Oxford center for fantasy visit Oxford center 379 00:26:02.030 --> 00:26:04.610 for fantasy.org to join in the fun. 380 00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:09.930 Find out about our online courses in person stays in Oxford plus 381 00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:12.330 visit our shop for great gifts. 382 00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:17.410 Tell a friend and subscribe wherever you find your favorite podcasts 383 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:18.290 worldwide.