Rings of Power - The Story Perspective (Amazon Prime)

0:06 Hello, and welcome to myth makers. Myth makers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy creatives brought to you by the Oxford center for fantasy. My name is Julia Golden. I'm the director of the center, uh, a keen talking fan and also an author in my own. Right. And today I thought I would dedicate this episode to what I've gleaned as a storyteller about the upcoming Amazon series rings of power. Now, there is plenty of information out there. The publicity teams are in full throttle. Um, so you can find out lots of information about the, uh, the actors who are playing the parts and, um, news from the cast and that kind of thing.

0:52 So I thought our added value was to look at it as storytellers and what we might, um, expect and the decisions that might have been taken in order to write this particular series. Cuz I think is an absolutely fascinating challenge that they they're facing. Most of their material is drawn from the appendices in, uh, the return of the king. And in fact, the information in that is very slight. So they've had a very blank canvas, um, to work on, but the absolute key thing they've done and I can understand why they've done it is they've truncated the time period.

1:34 So if you just look at the list of the people, uh, involved the characters involved and you look at the, uh, the name of the piece, you can see what they've done. So in the second age, there are two main events, both of which involve Sarah. The first, which happens earlier on is the establishment of, uh, Elvin kingdom, uh, just outside Kado or more Maria, uh, where Keller BOR, who is one of the leading craftsmen of the era, he's in charge of that sort of area. And he is, uh, creating rings of power and into this place comes sour who, uh, appears quite a sort of attractive figure.

2:21 And because he is also a great craftsman, he shows the elves how to make these rings and that's where the rock gets in. Uh, cuz he twists it for evil. And it's also the time where he, um, he, he forges the one ring that dominates the story of the Lord of the rings. So there's that SI that whole sort of nexus of characters, it includes go includes Aron. It includes skill goad more about all these in a bit later. Um, but that all happens in terms of the time of, of the second age, that all happens in about 1600.

3:04 So if you just wanna lodge it in your head as like the equivalent of tu days for us now, the second area of major activity in that age is about the fall of new Manor. Up to that point. Um, new Manor was set apart as an island for the sort of the good guys, the good humans, the good men, and it was set between middle earth and the undying lands as a sort of special dispensation. It's a kind of Atlantis and that gives you a hint of what happens there. And there's a whole series of very interesting Kings in that, uh, place.

3:45 If you want to read more about them, there's a lot in the unfinished tales, which are really well worth reading, including a fascinating husband and wife, um, story, which is quite unusual in talking anyway. Um, it seems as though where they've settled as the script writers is at the end of that. Um, and here we have a story about Muriel. Who's one of the name characters. She is the last queen of that place. She was the legitimate queen, but was forced into marriage with our Faron. And it's his interaction with Sarah that really causes and he a plot spoiler, the downfall of Luminor.

4:31 So she's quite a tragic figure if they're playing it straight. Um, because she's in this force marriage and, you know, disaster strikes and new Manor is punished for the arrogance of a because SA again comes in and persuades him that he didn't Abey. Uh, the God's commands. It's a bit like a garden of Eden story, very much like a garden of Eden story that he can sell to the undying lands, uh, that forbidden fruit is what our fire and sinks his teeth into. And I punishment Luminor is sunk and the remnant escapes and they are the founders of the kingdom of Goor the, uh, ancestors of, uh, Aragon and so on.

5:22 But the important thing about this is all of this happens in the year 32 55. So if I've said the events of the 40 of the one ring is back in two times, you know, that 32 55 hasn't come, that's probably only appeared in something like star Trek, it's thousands of years in the future. So in order to bring those two stories together, they've crushed the timelines. So the second age is really sort of squashed together, uh, or I assume they're doing that rather than some time slip thing. Um, would, that would be very hard to tell. So let's, I think they must have sort of moved one set of things from there and one sets from the future as it were, and they've brought them in alignment.

6:11 Now what happens as a storyteller when you do that? Well, I think it's really interesting to look at it in parallel tracks like that, because what you see is the same pattern. So Sarah starts the second age defeated because his great sort of Lord, uh, the original bad guy, Mor goth has been defeated and chained. And so he's like a remnant of that power. So he's in a, on the back foot, he comes to the ELs with promising. He's gonna be a good boy. He's gonna show them how to do all these wonderful crafts and the overlord king who is Gil Gallard doesn't believe him. So here's the skeptic, but because he's such a good artifact, sir, the VIN Smiths of a Regian are persuaded to listen and to invite him in and steal his craft or share their craft secrets.

7:11 And so you've got a seduction going on and that word is actually used in the appendices to describe that relationship. It's a seduction let's hope they don't take that too literal in the Amazon series. Um, I it's meant by talking in a sort of intellectual seduction way. And so Sarah appears as the tempter then, cause he's holding out knowledge. Here we go back to the garden of Eden again, it's the fruits of the tree of knowledge. And so what then happens is basically the gig is up after a while because killer Brior, who's the main, um, Smith in that region, he works out or he sees the plot.

7:57 The rings have give you access as you a member from Lord of the rings rings, give you access to the mind of SA. So he sees what's going on and they realize they have to defeat sour. And there is a battle there, um, for supremacy and that's when a re is basically wiped out. Um, Elron flees with the remnant to set up, um, Dale and I'm afraid the future for killer BBA. Isn't that bright. So that sort of one set of battles. So you've got the pattern. There is Sarah has tempt to first of all, um, despite the warnings is embraced and welcomed people, see what he's up to leads to a clash leads to a battle that same pattern is repeated in Luminor.

8:51 So he's first of all, um, brought there because a thinks he, he, he sails to middle earth and to, to Umar in fact, which we've not yet seen. Um, and Sarah sort of, you know, frustrates himself and sort of claims to be overwhelmed by his, you know, the marvels of his fleet and everything, but he's playing a longer game here. So he's welcomed to Luminor where he then spreads his poison. There are people saying, look out warning. He's not only he's cracked up to be. So there are people doing the Gill galled role of warning against him, but that isn't obviously going down well with R on. He, he wants to believe his top king, uh, his pride is his downfall. And so, um, his, uh, his plots aren't unmastered until too late.

9:53 So the seduction has gone on and again, that word is used in the appendices. He seduces the people and that is what leads to the attempt to overthrow, um, go as far as the undying lands, you know, try and be gods themselves, which then means Luminor is destroyed. So another kingdom is destroyed, same pattern you invite in the, your own destruction. You, um, don't listen to the warnings, you're seduced by what he seems to offer. You take a fatal step of, um, creating rings or sailing to the undying lands. And then you lose a kingdom, a kingdom is destroyed as a result.

10:37 So I think what they're doing is running those two stories in sync or in some way, meshing them be very interesting to see where they find the connective tissue. If it's going to be a sort of, this happens first and then that, um, for a second series or if they're actually gonna run it parallel though, that has the problem about where is sour gonna be, um, because he's clearly in a Reon for the first set of events and clearly in Newman for the second. So just guessing at the moment, I, I would've thought that they established Newman or in the first series and possibly saved that for, um, what happens next, but we'll see. Uh, so that's the big thing that I've sort of seen as a storyteller is looking at what you would do if you bring those two, um, big time gaps into alignment, what, what story you are end you end up facing and what you would then do with that story.

11:41 And I think the other important aspect, which I've been thinking of, um, from the point of view of telling a story is about the choice of characters to feature. And that's becoming plainer as well as we get more details about who's doing who's playing what, and I think what's particularly interesting is the decision to bring in the Harit as sort of proto hos. Now the half foots are mentioned in the, um, sort of talking backstory, but really, I don't think that he was thought of them being present until the third age, but let's allow them that little bit of license they've gotta come from somewhere. Uh, obviously haven't they, and we do know that there are races of small people halflings living on the banks of the river because that's where Gollum comes from and his society hasn't just sprung out of nowhere when he finds, uh, the one ring in the river. So I can see exactly why they're doing that.

12:42 It sounds perfectly good idea, but from a storytelling point of view, I think that this is possibly an attempt to conquer the most pressing problem that they have, which is, do we care about elves? Do we care about high races of men speaking in rather more formal language? That's always the problem about adaptations of high fantasy is where do we, as human beings connect in Lord of the rings, we connect at the level of the hobbits. So introducing hobbits or smaller people into the story, give us a relatable level.

13:26 What is interesting is how much these people will be the drivers of the story, clearly photos journey. And those of his companions is the, uh, the substance of Lord of the rings. But with the material from the second age, they're not there. They aren't the people, uh, driving the forging of the w rings or the downfall of Newman. So what little we do know about this is that one of the characters who are in the smaller people, um, bracket is Noy brand Brandy foot played by Markella Kavana and she is Brandy foot sounds like one of these port Manto words, Brandy wine, proud for all the rest of it.

14:18 So you see where that came from. Um, and we know that she and a close friend, poppy proud fellow played by Megan, Richard, um, discover a man fallen a bit like a flaming meteor from the sky who's played by an called Daniel Wayman. Now I'm sure this will all be revealed very soon, but if I was a betting person, I would reckon that possibly that character could be sour possibly, cuz that would fit with the idea of like a fallen angel, but we'll find out out. So it may be that they're introducing the hobbits as sort of behind the scenes movers and shakers. I E um, if you think of sour being a bit like the ring, the role of the ring is to bring evil into different people's lives in Lord of the rings. Sarah does that, um, in the second age.

15:13 So it could be in that they are, you know, mistakenly, um, from their point of view, introducing evil when they really didn't mean it, that would be an interesting direction to take. And of course there's a, another possibility, there were so many possibilities that the fallen, um, man, the naked man that could also be thinking it through a reference to one of the wizards, maybe even Gander. Um, he, isn't sort of, as far as the text are concerned, present during the second age, really, but he's alive, uh, because he's one of these, um, spiritual creatures as opposed to a natural born human lifespan type person and looking at the last, the trailers, there was a definitely a touch of Gand off the gray about the actor playing that part. So, um, we know that the, uh, Gand off has a friendship with the, uh, the habits that started on before the time of photo.

16:14 And Billbo so maybe we're going to see the beginning of that. That would be an interesting, uh, an interesting development. No, it of course what the problem is. He can't really intervene, um, in the major plots, unless it's very subtle and behind the scenes because it's not there in the appendices, but we'll see. But there is an attempt here to, I think, make us relate to these characters, which I think is absolutely necessary. What I'm worrying about is where their story goes, because it seems as though one of the main drivers of this series is goad.

16:55 We know goad story. So let's have a look at goad. We have met her in Lord of the rings as the mature VIN lady. She's already very old by the second age. So casting her as a younger actress. Again, we could see why, but she's pretty old, already thousands of years old. Um, and she originally comes from the undying lands as part of the Exodus of the ELs from that place. Uh, she, I would say that the Exodus of the elves is, is, is a shameful episode in health history because it involves, um, <inaudible> battles between Elvin families.

17:40 She's sort of a little bit aside from that, but still that whole episode is, is, is very fraught. And, um, um, people, you know, there is a sense of the greed of fi who's the original Elvin craftsman who makes the silver reels. So the, the Exor is actually driven by a sense of pride again, over the things that have been created, a wish to get out from under the thumb of the way the undying lands are governed.

18:23 So in GLA you have, um, an elf maiden, who's already had a very long history. She, um, in the second age, I mean she comes to meet the person. She eventually marries who Kell born. And if you look at talking's writings, uh, there is a number of different versions of where they live and when they live. But again, this is things you'll find in the silver Meridian, but, and also finding the unfinished tales. So they are present at the same time as the forging of the rings. And of course, collateral ends up with one of them.

19:05 So she's clearly gonna be a major person in this series, but how human is she, if she is this person of great power, if she is this person who has had all these thousands of years to grow and mature and gain her wisdom, she's less relatable to you and me isn't she than an a Hoit that's, that's one of the problems. It's why I think it's one of the reasons why people find the so Meridian more difficult to read is because it's about heroic figures done in a historical way, rather than in relatable way of the adventures of small people in a big world.

19:49 So that's the problem they have to tackle as writers. I can see strategies they're taking. So using the hos, making collateral younger. And of course, what we yet to see is quite what they do with the new Menor. This will be fascinating. And it's where it might end up in getting of Thrones territory, because Muriel as the forced wife of our, um, clearly there's more potential there for, um, more adult material. I think that the, the series is going to try and stay in family watching territory, but still the, the, uh, the tone of that story of its tragic trajectory does seem outside the redemptive arc that you get in Lord of the rings.

20:50 I think that's a real that's that's, that is a big challenge. So maybe that is why they are introducing completely new characters. And among those new characters is possibly the one I really looking forward to seeing is a female Wolf called DSA. So, whereas in the Hobbit films of Peter Jackson, we got a couple of, uh, Wolff women in the sort of background characters looks like they've actually got one as a foreground character. So I think another conclusion I've come to as a sort of storyteller is the effort has been made to foreground really interesting female characters, because it's clear that when talking was writing, um, he wasn't thinking in terms of having leading female characters in his, uh, novels, it just wasn't part of the way he thought.

21:47 And so this generation is taking on the challenge to work out complex character arcs for the women. So hopefully we'll get some people who will be up there with air win Arwin and collateral, so that we've got more female talking characters to talk about in future. So that's my little, uh, overview just prior to the series coming out, we will be dipping back into review the early episodes and then an overview of the end of the first se season. And I think really the thing that I want to stop with is what would you have done if you were given the, the task of writing this, it's such an enormous task.

22:33 They're not going to please everybody. And I've been thinking about it ever since I heard this series was coming out, just thinking, well, what would I do? Uh, I think I probably panic <laugh> because of the expectations that are weighing on me, but it, uh, this sort little exercise of working out, what they're doing has actually been very revealing as to how creatives are thinking about this. And so fingers crossed that what they've actually put together has picked up the, the sort of the idea of making it relatable, finding good story arcs, um, bringing together the events, which are central to the second age, to get away from the feeling that this is a kind of game of Throne's light. Um, that would be horrible.

23:20 Let's hope they've actually kept the spirit of talking, which I think centers on somebody with Hobbit values, not necessarily a Hobbit, but somebody who is earthed, who is appreciates nature, who is, who is a, a character where we can sort of settle down and see the events of the world with them. That's what I'm hoping. Cuz that seems to be really one of the huge reasons for the longevity of token's fantasy. Now I always end these, uh, podcasts with where in all the fantasy world is the best place to be something. This one's a bit of a challenge, um, because I've been trying to guess what the main themes are, but clearly one theme I think I can put my money on would be where in all the fantasy worlds is the best place to be a maker of rings. I don't think that is in, uh, the world of Lord of the rings because what happens to you is not, not very good. Uh, you get sort of sucked in by your creation or find you've put most of your power in it. So you becomes your Achilles hill, very bad idea, sour on you should have thought this through anyway. Um, so where would be a better place in all the fancy worlds to be a maker of rings and the other place where rings are made in the world of the inklings of course, is in the magician's nephew. Um, uncle Andrew makes some rings.

24:51 He starts off by sending Guinea pigs off and it takes you to the wood between the worlds. So the, the ability to make those rings, that take you to a place where you can travel to other worlds, sounds like a really good place to be a ring maker. So that would be my pick if I was going to be without cuz uncle Andrew is selfish and evil, um, and unleashes the Empress J on, on, uh, London, through having sent the children to her world, leaving all that aside <laugh> and just doing the bit where you get to travel. That's what I'd like to be. I'd like to make rings and go to the wood between the worlds and have the ability to jump into the pools and visit other worlds and take somebody with me as well, because this isn't just for one person this ring. Anyway, so that is my thought on making rings of power. Thank you very much.

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