Stargazy Pies And Imperial Stories - Part 2

WEBVTT100:00:06.380 --> 00:00:10.830Yeah, I think the thing which I've taken away from it is a sense of love and200:00:10.840 --> 00:00:15.510fellowship between these palace servants who have given up a conventional life300:00:15.570 --> 00:00:19.580to serve the emperor and the emperor himself. Um,400:00:20.600 --> 00:00:23.460and it's, they've, they've been the person who dresses him,500:00:23.460 --> 00:00:26.020the person who guards him, that kind of thing,600:00:26.360 --> 00:00:29.220the person who writes his letters, um, and it's, they've,700:00:29.220 --> 00:00:34.140they've made this own little community and a hu huge amount of humor in it as800:00:34.140 --> 00:00:35.620well, because you can get the perspective,900:00:37.050 --> 00:00:39.370even though it's all from Cliff's point of view,1000:00:39.630 --> 00:00:43.650you do understand their perspective on him because he's self aware enough to1100:00:43.650 --> 00:00:46.610know when they're sort of manipulating him into a,1200:00:46.610 --> 00:00:51.290yet more ridiculous outfit for some ceremony or something. Yeah,1300:00:51.310 --> 00:00:54.850that's absolutely lovely. So, uh, you've answered the question as your,1400:00:55.270 --> 00:00:59.320in this one, you were character led, but do you swap your, um,1500:01:00.080 --> 00:01:03.640technique depending on what sort of genre you've decided to write in,1600:01:03.640 --> 00:01:06.080in your extended world? Would you, in another one, for example,1700:01:07.150 --> 00:01:09.080plotted out more entirely.1800:01:10.780 --> 00:01:14.560To a certain degree in general, I'm a character led writer. And, um,1900:01:15.500 --> 00:01:20.270even with like the Starkeys E pie and the greening and dark books are more plot2000:01:20.530 --> 00:01:25.470driven. Um, but even there, I tend to kind of focus on the character more.2100:01:25.870 --> 00:01:30.270I tend to be a writer into, I write into the dark, um, which is to say, I,2200:01:30.310 --> 00:01:32.950I I'm an exploratory writer. Um, as I said,2300:01:32.950 --> 00:01:36.100I usually know kind of where I want the story to end,2400:01:36.480 --> 00:01:41.380and I know how it fits into my overarching kind of, uh, world building,2500:01:41.760 --> 00:01:45.860but I leave a lot of it up to, to just figuring it out as I go along.2600:01:46.120 --> 00:01:50.660And I find that I find that very fun. I enjoy that process. Um, yes,2700:01:50.780 --> 00:01:53.170I would say I'm normal character, character led.2800:01:54.510 --> 00:01:55.650So do you, I mean, the,2900:01:56.730 --> 00:02:01.210arguably the sort of very special thing about fantasy and science fiction is3000:02:01.210 --> 00:02:04.450that you do your own well world building though, of course,3100:02:04.510 --> 00:02:08.130in historical fiction, you're also building a world in a sense, but anyway,3200:02:08.360 --> 00:02:11.440it's clearly more of a well building task. Do you have any, um,3300:02:11.510 --> 00:02:15.720tips for people who are wanting to write their own fantasy, um,3400:02:16.750 --> 00:02:19.210how to organize or approach well building?3500:02:20.720 --> 00:02:22.730Well, I wouldn't say I'm very organized about it.3600:02:22.730 --> 00:02:24.890People are forever asking me if I have maps and things like that.3700:02:24.890 --> 00:02:25.690And I'm kind of like, well, no,3800:02:25.690 --> 00:02:28.610I have sort of sketches that I've done on the back of a piece of an envelope3900:02:28.610 --> 00:02:31.040kind of thing. I'm not, I'm not very organized. Um,4000:02:31.440 --> 00:02:36.040I don't have a binder of all the useful measurements and stuff like that, which,4100:02:36.180 --> 00:02:38.120uh, I probably could do with, um,4200:02:38.120 --> 00:02:40.760it's one of those things I keep thinking I should go back and like make an4300:02:40.760 --> 00:02:44.280actual, make more notes for myself. I keep a lot of it in my head,4400:02:44.340 --> 00:02:49.190but from that point of view, one thing I do find is, as I said,4500:02:49.230 --> 00:02:53.510I try and draw from like less obvious sources.4600:02:54.130 --> 00:02:57.550And for me that's often, um, I read a lot of,4700:02:57.690 --> 00:02:59.240of sort of micros histories,4800:02:59.280 --> 00:03:04.000I guess you could say about specific things and try and build out from there.4900:03:04.140 --> 00:03:07.840That's one element. So, you know, you read a history of oh,5000:03:07.840 --> 00:03:11.720garden design or costumes, or, um,5100:03:13.600 --> 00:03:17.750I dunno, just looking at my bookshelves here, even something like, um,5200:03:18.690 --> 00:03:22.990top or, you know, the history of the teapots or something like that. And like,5300:03:22.990 --> 00:03:26.350they sound very silly, but, and very, very, very precise. But at the same time,5400:03:26.850 --> 00:03:29.710if you kind of think about, well, where did they come from? Who builds those?5500:03:29.930 --> 00:03:32.390You know, give your characters slightly different things to do,5600:03:32.730 --> 00:03:35.110cuz that's more fun too. Like, you know, like some, you know,5700:03:35.110 --> 00:03:37.900where's the cloth coming from? Where is the food coming from?5800:03:37.900 --> 00:03:42.060Where's the water coming? How is it being cleaned or not cleaned? You know,5900:03:42.060 --> 00:03:45.820what effects does that have? Where's the waste going? I once, um,6000:03:46.420 --> 00:03:51.340<laugh> once went to the sewer museum in Paris and that is ever after made me6100:03:51.580 --> 00:03:55.570question this, this thing about like, where is the water purification system?6200:03:55.570 --> 00:03:58.050How is that working? You know, that could be working by magic.6300:03:58.050 --> 00:04:02.330That's how it's working on Zuni than, um, in other places it's, it's not,6400:04:02.590 --> 00:04:05.930you know, it's much more traditional, like, uh, you know, um,6500:04:06.920 --> 00:04:11.650sort of refu and rubbish rubbish, but that matters. So that's one element I do.6600:04:11.670 --> 00:04:15.440And the other part that I find is if I've made a mistake or something that6700:04:15.440 --> 00:04:18.960seemed like, you know, if you're like, oh, in that book, I said this.6800:04:18.960 --> 00:04:20.760And then in this book I said the other thing, and they,6900:04:20.760 --> 00:04:23.280those seem to directly contradict each other. And you know,7000:04:23.280 --> 00:04:24.320if it's a work in progress,7100:04:24.340 --> 00:04:27.640the logical thing is to fix the one that's a work in progress.7200:04:27.700 --> 00:04:31.910But I often find that if you stop and say to yourself, no, wait a moment.7300:04:32.050 --> 00:04:35.670How can those both be true? You know, what can I do to make those both work?7400:04:36.170 --> 00:04:40.550Is that because person a misunderstood it or person B7500:04:40.660 --> 00:04:44.950understands it better or there's something bigger that those are both kind of7600:04:44.990 --> 00:04:47.870elements of, or, you know, like that kind of thing.7700:04:47.990 --> 00:04:51.820I find that adds a real depth and nuance to the world because like,7800:04:53.040 --> 00:04:57.550if I I'm one of those people that I find if I do too much, like,7900:04:58.370 --> 00:05:01.790um, too much like front of brain, world building,8000:05:01.850 --> 00:05:05.550it becomes a little too smooth and there's not like a lot of the nooks and8100:05:05.550 --> 00:05:06.470crannies in it for me.8200:05:06.660 --> 00:05:09.380Whereas I find if you do kind of the back end world building,8300:05:09.400 --> 00:05:14.220as you go and try and let it grow out8400:05:14.220 --> 00:05:19.100logically out of kind of something unusual that it becomes much richer.8500:05:19.100 --> 00:05:22.820So for me, that's something I enjoy and I try really hard to visualize, um,8600:05:22.840 --> 00:05:26.780places. I'm not always great at that. I'm better with, um, gardens.8700:05:26.780 --> 00:05:30.610That's a kind of a hobby of mine gardening. And so I really think about the,8800:05:30.750 --> 00:05:35.730the like ecology of a place and what that might feel like and look up8900:05:35.730 --> 00:05:39.440that kind of stuff. So I guess for world building, if you make a mistake,9000:05:39.440 --> 00:05:42.560it can be an opportunity, um, to make it much richer.9100:05:43.710 --> 00:05:45.640Yeah. Oh, that's really interesting.9200:05:45.760 --> 00:05:48.550I haven't heard anyone say it like that actually. Um,9300:05:49.010 --> 00:05:53.070so how was your journey to publishing? What, what route have you taken?9400:05:54.440 --> 00:05:55.850Well, I decided, um,9500:05:56.990 --> 00:06:01.040decided I was going to do kind of the indie publishing side largely because I9600:06:01.040 --> 00:06:04.880wanted to write these interconnected stories and I wanted to be in control of9700:06:04.880 --> 00:06:06.120what I was writing and when,9800:06:06.540 --> 00:06:11.400and when I kind of really became serious about writing was when that it was just9900:06:11.400 --> 00:06:15.240after the kind of first flush of that in the kind of, you know,10000:06:15.240 --> 00:06:17.9502012 was really when it kind of started to really pick up.10100:06:17.970 --> 00:06:20.030And I had a friend who was much more, um,10200:06:20.520 --> 00:06:23.830aware of how self-publishing and indie publishing was going.10300:06:24.290 --> 00:06:26.510And we'd spend a lot of time talking about it at that point.10400:06:26.650 --> 00:06:30.190And I thought to myself, because I wasn't writing conventional stories,10500:06:30.250 --> 00:06:33.510cuz I like these ones that are like around the corners of the epic quest and10600:06:33.510 --> 00:06:35.740things like that, that I thought, you know,10700:06:37.580 --> 00:06:39.200that's really something I want to do.10800:06:39.240 --> 00:06:42.760I don't want somebody to tell me that that's not like a going to sell because10900:06:42.760 --> 00:06:45.320it's not a conventional story, you know? And, um,11000:06:45.320 --> 00:06:48.080which is a real concern cuz of course they're trying to,11100:06:48.080 --> 00:06:50.360there are businesses and they're trying to make money back as well.11200:06:50.360 --> 00:06:53.040Whereas if I was willing to do it myself, I could, you know,11300:06:53.230 --> 00:06:55.630if I have something that nobody likes because it's a very strange book,11400:06:55.630 --> 00:06:59.990then that's okay, that's mine. So for me it was that. And then I've just spent,11500:07:01.060 --> 00:07:01.520you know,11600:07:01.520 --> 00:07:06.160I probably spent the last six or seven years working on building up my, um,11700:07:07.420 --> 00:07:10.960my works. And um, for me,11800:07:10.960 --> 00:07:12.430what I did was I,11900:07:12.510 --> 00:07:17.270I kind of decided to take the approach that my stories are interconnected and my12000:07:17.280 --> 00:07:21.230style is fairly consistent. Um, my, or I guess my, my voice,12100:07:21.290 --> 00:07:24.590my authorial voice is fairly consistent across, across my books,12200:07:24.700 --> 00:07:28.190even when they're in somewhat different genres. And I thought to myself,12300:07:28.190 --> 00:07:29.830you know, if, if somebody likes one of my books,12400:07:29.850 --> 00:07:32.460they're largely gonna like most of them or all of them,12500:07:32.460 --> 00:07:33.780they're gonna go and read the other ones.12600:07:33.780 --> 00:07:36.980And so my general plan was basically to just keep writing them until I got to12700:07:36.980 --> 00:07:39.180some sort of hopefully, um,12800:07:39.510 --> 00:07:43.780level where there were enough that and enough readers coming in that,12900:07:44.320 --> 00:07:47.570um, people would be, you know,13000:07:47.770 --> 00:07:50.440enjoying finding the others and that's worked, I am going,13100:07:50.440 --> 00:07:54.760full-time writing this week. So I'm pretty pleased with that. Thank you.13200:07:56.140 --> 00:07:56.973So I basically.13300:07:58.980 --> 00:08:02.720So how do you, um, manage with the editing and all that kind of stuff?13400:08:02.870 --> 00:08:06.560Have you got a, a team of beta readers behind, you know.13500:08:07.170 --> 00:08:11.550I'm a one, one reader kind of person? Um,13600:08:12.230 --> 00:08:15.110I like standing, I do have,13700:08:15.230 --> 00:08:19.670I do have a couple people that other author friends, particularly, um,13800:08:19.810 --> 00:08:22.950and we kind of trade reading and talking about plots and,13900:08:22.970 --> 00:08:25.830and kind of craft level things. And then I, um,14000:08:25.980 --> 00:08:30.980have somebody to do kind of copy editing of some form once we14100:08:30.980 --> 00:08:31.700get to that point. Yeah.14200:08:31.700 --> 00:08:36.140I do layout in the cover design myself <laugh> so I've been working on that and14300:08:36.240 --> 00:08:39.100um, that's something I may well outsource in future,14400:08:39.120 --> 00:08:43.500but I enjoy it and I enjoy the, the kind of, that process of it too. So yeah.14500:08:43.640 --> 00:08:48.210So for me, um, yeah, so that's how I do it basically.14600:08:50.150 --> 00:08:53.370So what next for you? Are you, um,14700:08:53.880 --> 00:08:57.240remaining in your extensive world? Are you, where are you going?14800:08:58.160 --> 00:08:58.993I am remaining in my.14900:08:59.710 --> 00:09:00.543Somewhere else.15000:09:02.020 --> 00:09:03.880Um, well actually I'm writing a,15100:09:04.070 --> 00:09:07.840I've been working on a sequel to the hands of the emperor for the last couple of15200:09:07.840 --> 00:09:12.040years. And this is, I'm kind of moving to focusing on that, um, over the summer.15300:09:12.100 --> 00:09:16.910So I'm hoping that will be out in probably late October, early November is,15400:09:16.970 --> 00:09:20.430is the goal with that one. It's gonna be another big honking book.15500:09:20.430 --> 00:09:23.990So I'm not giving an exact date until it's a little closer to completion. It's,15600:09:24.020 --> 00:09:27.190it's more than halfway done right now, but, um, you never know the,15700:09:27.190 --> 00:09:30.190the kind of the final throws every once in a while you write something and you15800:09:30.190 --> 00:09:32.460realize the story's gone way off to a different direction,15900:09:32.460 --> 00:09:35.060that's much better and you have to throw out a whole bunch of it in order to16000:09:35.060 --> 00:09:39.980make that work. So that could still happen. And, um, so I'm working on that.16100:09:40.080 --> 00:09:43.900The re the book I just had coming out, come out last week is called, uh,16200:09:43.900 --> 00:09:48.140the red outable Prama pool, which is, um, kind of the second in a,16300:09:48.680 --> 00:09:52.290in a new series, um, about the red company.16400:09:52.990 --> 00:09:54.290And I'll be working on that.16500:09:54.290 --> 00:09:57.690And those should be another greening and dart later this year,16600:09:57.690 --> 00:10:00.290beginning of next year as well. So keep on going with those ones.16700:10:00.390 --> 00:10:02.050The greening and dart series is at six,16800:10:02.050 --> 00:10:04.610and I think they'll probably be 12 by the end time that that one's done.16900:10:04.670 --> 00:10:07.650So just sort of poke along with those. I'm one of the,17000:10:07.650 --> 00:10:11.080I don't like writing the same character point of view back to back.17100:10:11.160 --> 00:10:15.960I find it much better to switch to a new character. And so I tend to,17200:10:15.980 --> 00:10:17.560to skip around a little bit like that.17300:10:19.630 --> 00:10:22.840Well, put a link to your, uh, website in the show notes,17400:10:22.840 --> 00:10:25.160so people can come and find all these books and, uh,17500:10:25.300 --> 00:10:29.030decide which one they're going to start with. So, um,17600:10:29.580 --> 00:10:33.750star GZ pie for people who don't know is actually a real dish that you would17700:10:33.860 --> 00:10:38.270find a traditional dish from. I think Cornal, uh, in fact, and it's, um,17800:10:39.270 --> 00:10:41.750a pie where it is the pastry is laid.17900:10:41.890 --> 00:10:45.550So the fish and head and tail poke out as though it's sort of breaking through18000:10:45.550 --> 00:10:49.500from the crust. So in our podcast,18100:10:49.720 --> 00:10:53.220we always end up with where in all the fantasy worlds is the best place for18200:10:53.220 --> 00:10:56.780something. And I thought I would ask you, um,18300:10:57.280 --> 00:11:02.140for where in all the fantasy worlds that you've seen on television and films or18400:11:02.570 --> 00:11:03.420read about in books,18500:11:03.830 --> 00:11:08.450where do you think has the best sort of speciality dishes that, uh,18600:11:08.830 --> 00:11:09.890you know, you'd like to sample.18700:11:11.260 --> 00:11:14.830Well, surely we all want to eat the meal that Billbo produces for the,18800:11:15.170 --> 00:11:19.990for the dwarves, right? I I've made CD cake as a result of that particular, um,18900:11:20.100 --> 00:11:23.780encounter that one's always been the one that, those stories and, um,19000:11:24.330 --> 00:11:26.340some of the ones in the Narnia books too, to be honest,19100:11:26.410 --> 00:11:30.180I've always loved the food descriptions in, in both of those, those books.19200:11:30.410 --> 00:11:32.940Otherwise, I don't know, like,19300:11:32.940 --> 00:11:36.100I feel like in some ways those are really high points in terms of food19400:11:36.100 --> 00:11:38.900descriptions. Um, you know, it's,19500:11:39.010 --> 00:11:43.810it's like that meal that Shasta gets given in the horse and his19600:11:43.830 --> 00:11:48.450boy, um, is, you know, like that he is the first time he's ever had half of,19700:11:49.150 --> 00:11:50.010you know, and like, you know,19800:11:50.010 --> 00:11:52.650the description of the wine and all that kind of stuff, but yeah,19900:11:52.790 --> 00:11:55.240and bill those thing, and then I've also Al you know, the,20000:11:55.260 --> 00:11:56.920the picnic and the wind and the willows,20100:11:56.920 --> 00:11:59.200those are the classic kind of British ones. And I, I don't know,20200:11:59.260 --> 00:12:02.200I'm not sure that there's been a lot more that, that kind of peak over those.20300:12:02.780 --> 00:12:03.600But, um, I,20400:12:03.600 --> 00:12:06.640I was reflecting on this not long ago and thinking that I really needed to up20500:12:06.700 --> 00:12:10.840my, um, food descriptions, something kind of work on that a little bit more,20600:12:10.840 --> 00:12:13.830really have some sort of great feasts that are like,20700:12:14.050 --> 00:12:16.990but not necessarily like spectacular banquets,20800:12:16.990 --> 00:12:19.870but just really delightful dishes. Um.20900:12:20.180 --> 00:12:23.150Yeah. And they can be used for comic effect as well. I, for me,21000:12:23.210 --> 00:12:26.390the one I was going to pick is comes in the film galaxy quest.21100:12:26.700 --> 00:12:29.310Have you ever seen that? It's one of my favorite films that.21200:12:29.310 --> 00:12:31.860Is very funny one, the bit where they're all giving, where they're giving them,21300:12:31.860 --> 00:12:33.100what are theoretically all their,21400:12:33.100 --> 00:12:37.460like FA their regional specialties for the characters they are.21500:12:37.570 --> 00:12:41.470That is such a funny movie. I really enjoy that. So I like this.21600:12:42.410 --> 00:12:45.030For those of you hadn't seen it. What happens there is, uh,21700:12:45.030 --> 00:12:49.980an alien culture has taken a television sci-fi series as being21800:12:49.980 --> 00:12:50.813historical.21900:12:51.400 --> 00:12:56.180So when the characters are taken by this culture to try and help them22000:12:56.310 --> 00:13:00.660solve a sort of bad problem, they've got, they've built everything for real.22100:13:01.400 --> 00:13:05.180And this is all very well for the human characters who are given, I know,22200:13:05.540 --> 00:13:09.770burgers and French fries, whatever. Um, but poor old Alan Rickman, uh,22300:13:09.790 --> 00:13:12.170his character, Dr. Lazarus is given this,22400:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.650this sort of soup tour of life bugs,22500:13:17.940 --> 00:13:19.290which crawling out,22600:13:19.310 --> 00:13:22.690and he's supposed to eat this because on the program that was supposed to be22700:13:22.710 --> 00:13:27.480his, uh, his food. It's just a, and of course, nobody did.22800:13:28.540 --> 00:13:33.200Sardon better than Alan Rickman, uh, much missed.22900:13:34.270 --> 00:13:39.040Yeah. So that's my pick Victoria, thank you so much for, uh, joining us.23000:13:39.140 --> 00:13:43.440And it's a delight to find somebody who has taken a lot of her inspirations from23100:13:43.440 --> 00:13:46.790the inkling writers. And from, of course, we, uh,23200:13:46.790 --> 00:13:49.190we also mentioned briefly Dorothy L Sayers,23300:13:49.250 --> 00:13:53.710but you've said that she's another person who, that you've really enjoyed, um,23400:13:53.780 --> 00:13:55.950reading on your route to your own writing.23500:13:56.610 --> 00:13:59.390So it's been wonderful to meet you and thank you very much for joining us.23600:13:59.980 --> 00:14:02.230Well, thank you very much. I thank you for having me. I'm,23700:14:02.290 --> 00:14:05.100I'm delighted you enjoy the hands of the emperor and I hope, uh,23800:14:05.340 --> 00:14:08.140a few of your readers do as well. And, uh, yeah,23900:14:08.440 --> 00:14:12.700the inklings have been a huge part of my, of my formation as a, as a writer.24000:14:13.400 --> 00:14:16.980And, um, in many ways I kind of keep reflecting back on them.24100:14:17.540 --> 00:14:19.700Probably the green wing and dart ones are a little books are a little more24200:14:19.700 --> 00:14:22.010obvious, especially as you get later on into the series,24300:14:22.010 --> 00:14:25.450you'll see some much clearer kind of echoes of,24400:14:25.750 --> 00:14:29.650of some of the CS Lewis and elements in particular, but overall,24500:14:30.390 --> 00:14:32.650the questions that they raise and the, and24600:14:34.590 --> 00:14:38.250the joy they have in description and in food and in characters,24700:14:38.820 --> 00:14:42.360world building is something that I've always really, really admired.24800:14:43.020 --> 00:14:45.840So thank you really enjoyed getting the chance to talk to you about this.24900:14:46.610 --> 00:14:47.443Thank you very much.25000:14:48.030 --> 00:14:48.863Welcome.25100:14:54.220 --> 00:14:58.680Thanks for listening to mythmakers podcast brought to you by the25200:14:58.820 --> 00:15:03.560Oxford center for fantasy visit Oxford center for fantasy.org25300:15:03.740 --> 00:15:04.840to join in the fun.25400:15:05.430 --> 00:15:10.110Find out about our online courses in person stays in Oxford plus25500:15:10.360 --> 00:15:12.510visit our shop for great gifts.25600:15:13.140 --> 00:15:17.630Tell a friend and subscribe wherever you find your favorite podcasts25700:15:17.900 --> 00:15:18.510worldwide.