Celebrating King Arthur on Tolkien Reading Day

100:00:04.540 --> 00:00:07.000Hello and welcome to Mythmakers.200:00:07.180 --> 00:00:09.860Mythmakers is the podcast for fantasy fans300:00:09.860 --> 00:00:12.920and fantasy creatives brought to you by the400:00:12.920 --> 00:00:14.720Oxford Centre for Fantasy.500:00:15.300 --> 00:00:17.220My name is Julia Golding.600:00:18.120 --> 00:00:23.560Now, the 25th of March, which is during700:00:23.560 --> 00:00:26.120this week when this podcast is being released,800:00:26.500 --> 00:00:30.600is celebrated as the Tolkien Reading Day.900:00:31.200 --> 00:00:34.940And that's because it's the day that the1000:00:34.940 --> 00:00:36.720ring goes into the fire, if you're following1100:00:36.720 --> 00:00:39.220Tolkien's calendar in the Lord of the Rings.1200:00:39.480 --> 00:00:41.700And also in terms of the church year,1300:00:41.780 --> 00:00:44.480which was very important to Tolkien, it's Lady1400:00:44.480 --> 00:00:44.780Day.1500:00:45.220 --> 00:00:48.060So one of the special feast days in1600:00:48.060 --> 00:00:49.740the Roman Catholic Church.1700:00:50.480 --> 00:00:53.000So in terms of celebrating, I thought we1800:00:53.000 --> 00:00:55.980would have a focus on what people have1900:00:55.980 --> 00:00:57.920been reading through the ages.2000:00:58.620 --> 00:01:00.420And shortly, we're going to be having a2100:01:00.420 --> 00:01:04.519special guest on the podcast, Malcolm Gite, whose2200:01:04.519 --> 00:01:08.760new Galahad and the Grail, the first of2300:01:08.760 --> 00:01:13.440his proposed Arthurian epic poetical work, has just2400:01:13.440 --> 00:01:14.020come out.2500:01:14.160 --> 00:01:16.840And I thought we could talk about what2600:01:16.840 --> 00:01:19.380Arthur has meant to people over the centuries.2700:01:20.140 --> 00:01:22.140We have touched on Arthur once before on2800:01:22.140 --> 00:01:24.780the podcast, with an expert to do with2900:01:24.780 --> 00:01:25.780all things Arthurian.3000:01:25.880 --> 00:01:28.960But here I'm thinking more about how people3100:01:28.960 --> 00:01:30.500have responded as readers.3200:01:31.360 --> 00:01:33.700So we're not really looking into the historical3300:01:33.700 --> 00:01:35.640evidence for Arthur.3400:01:36.120 --> 00:01:39.200That is another kind of podcast entirely.3500:01:39.640 --> 00:01:41.580But we're looking at what people have got3600:01:41.580 --> 00:01:44.860over the centuries reading about Arthur.3700:01:45.740 --> 00:01:49.940Now, Arthur is ubiquitous in the UK.3800:01:50.220 --> 00:01:53.060You'll go to many places and visit all3900:01:53.060 --> 00:01:55.320sorts of different parts of the kingdom.4000:01:56.120 --> 00:02:00.580And you'll find places named after Arthurian characters4100:02:00.580 --> 00:02:01.780or after himself.4200:02:02.800 --> 00:02:04.420And for those of you who have somehow4300:02:04.420 --> 00:02:07.440managed to avoid what Arthur is about, he4400:02:07.440 --> 00:02:11.900is a king of legend or myth, who4500:02:11.900 --> 00:02:19.700supposedly existed after the Romans left and before4600:02:19.700 --> 00:02:22.120more recorded history.4700:02:22.900 --> 00:02:28.280And he joined together the different tribal groups4800:02:28.280 --> 00:02:30.600at the time and became a great king.4900:02:30.920 --> 00:02:33.520Now, a lot of that is based on5000:02:33.520 --> 00:02:36.460stories attached to real kings that kind of5100:02:36.460 --> 00:02:39.280have been scooped up by Arthur.5200:02:39.740 --> 00:02:44.580And then there's also this Celtic folkloric element,5300:02:45.000 --> 00:02:48.840which has also been sort of put around5400:02:48.840 --> 00:02:49.060him.5500:02:49.180 --> 00:02:51.140So he's one of those figures who've attracted5600:02:51.140 --> 00:02:53.000stories, barnacles.5700:02:54.060 --> 00:02:56.740So he's like something that's sunk in the5800:02:56.740 --> 00:02:56.940sea.5900:02:57.080 --> 00:02:58.280And if you go down now and have6000:02:58.280 --> 00:02:59.700a look at it, it's got barnacles and6100:02:59.700 --> 00:03:01.840seaweed and starfish and all sorts of things6200:03:01.840 --> 00:03:02.560growing on it.6300:03:02.920 --> 00:03:04.980What the original structure was, who knows?6400:03:05.080 --> 00:03:07.840And it doesn't matter, because the stories are6500:03:07.840 --> 00:03:08.720so powerful.6600:03:09.700 --> 00:03:10.740Where did it all come from?6700:03:10.900 --> 00:03:14.720Well, originally, there were brief mentions in histories6800:03:14.720 --> 00:03:17.700written by the very early chroniclers, and they6900:03:17.700 --> 00:03:20.900don't really interest us so much as in7000:03:20.900 --> 00:03:21.860terms of readership.7100:03:22.500 --> 00:03:24.500It's more they were the sources that got7200:03:24.500 --> 00:03:28.280Arthur's stories into the English language.7300:03:30.020 --> 00:03:33.640And there is a history where he was7400:03:33.640 --> 00:03:36.460taken up by the Germans and the French7500:03:36.460 --> 00:03:37.620and all sorts of people.7600:03:38.720 --> 00:03:42.560But where we really start is with the7700:03:42.560 --> 00:03:45.620story of the Morte d'Arthur.7800:03:46.580 --> 00:03:48.300It's a French title, isn't it?7900:03:48.360 --> 00:03:50.120But actually, it is one of the very8000:03:50.120 --> 00:03:51.340first books printed.8100:03:52.240 --> 00:03:54.620I've got a pretty ancient edition here, not8200:03:54.620 --> 00:03:56.160the Caxton version.8300:03:57.100 --> 00:04:01.240But Thomas Mallory collected all sorts of stories8400:04:01.240 --> 00:04:04.300and organized them into a long...8500:04:04.300 --> 00:04:05.780Let's see how many books there is in8600:04:05.780 --> 00:04:06.000my...8700:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.440I think it's 12 books.8800:04:08.300 --> 00:04:09.980Well, no, no, no, much more than that.8900:04:10.540 --> 00:04:13.16021 books in this story.9000:04:13.720 --> 00:04:17.180And you'll find in here all the sort9100:04:17.180 --> 00:04:21.240of popular versions of what you know as9200:04:21.240 --> 00:04:22.040Arthur's stories.9300:04:22.760 --> 00:04:25.440So you'll get the Arthur and Mordred and9400:04:25.440 --> 00:04:28.160Excalibur and Guinevere and Lancelot.9500:04:28.220 --> 00:04:29.140They're all in here.9600:04:29.920 --> 00:04:32.380And you, of course, get the story of9700:04:32.380 --> 00:04:32.920the Grail.9800:04:33.220 --> 00:04:35.940The Grail is the cup used at the9900:04:35.940 --> 00:04:39.960last supper by Jesus and his disciples, also10000:04:39.960 --> 00:04:42.240thought to have caught some of his blood10100:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.520on the cross and then brought to England.10200:04:46.280 --> 00:04:47.460Yeah, you're with me still?10300:04:48.560 --> 00:04:51.380By Joseph of Arimathea, and it becomes a10400:04:51.380 --> 00:04:54.160sort of mystical cup that is much sought10500:04:54.160 --> 00:04:54.500after.10600:04:54.600 --> 00:04:56.760It's the kind of thing that would be10700:04:56.760 --> 00:05:00.120the aim of an Indiana Jones quest, that10800:05:00.120 --> 00:05:01.360kind of religious object.10900:05:02.640 --> 00:05:06.040So Mallory, in a sense, really kicked off11000:05:06.040 --> 00:05:10.960the main reading phase of King Arthur.11100:05:11.120 --> 00:05:13.840Before then, it would have been in poetry11200:05:13.840 --> 00:05:15.460and songs that were performed.11300:05:16.000 --> 00:05:17.940But now there was something you could have11400:05:17.940 --> 00:05:21.460in your household or in your library and11500:05:21.460 --> 00:05:22.260you could read.11600:05:22.660 --> 00:05:24.480So what does it sound like?11700:05:24.600 --> 00:05:25.940What is Mallory like?11800:05:26.420 --> 00:05:30.440It's fairly close to modern English, even though11900:05:30.440 --> 00:05:36.400the actual date of first publication, 1470, in12000:05:36.400 --> 00:05:39.120the ninth year of Edward IV.12100:05:39.740 --> 00:05:42.680So if you think about history, this is12200:05:42.680 --> 00:05:43.780before the Tudors.12300:05:46.460 --> 00:05:49.100It's really where the medieval world is turning12400:05:49.100 --> 00:05:50.880into the Renaissance world.12500:05:51.020 --> 00:05:51.840It's that period.12600:05:52.820 --> 00:05:54.600And the printing press is a big part12700:05:54.600 --> 00:05:55.200of that.12800:05:56.300 --> 00:05:58.620And it was a bestseller in its era12900:05:58.620 --> 00:06:00.820and it still is a jolly good read.13000:06:00.900 --> 00:06:02.260So I'm going to choose a little bit13100:06:02.260 --> 00:06:04.540to read to you, just so that you13200:06:04.540 --> 00:06:06.340can get a flavour of it.13300:06:07.420 --> 00:06:08.600So I'm going to read you the bit13400:06:08.600 --> 00:06:12.260where Arthur pulls Excalibur from the stone.13500:06:12.760 --> 00:06:14.800So this sword has arrived.13600:06:15.200 --> 00:06:17.400It's set in a stone and no one13700:06:17.400 --> 00:06:19.280so far has been able to pull it13800:06:19.280 --> 00:06:19.580out.13900:06:20.560 --> 00:06:22.880So upon New Year's Day, when the service14000:06:22.880 --> 00:06:25.260was done, the barons rode unto the field,14100:06:25.720 --> 00:06:27.640some to Joust and some to Tourney.14200:06:28.100 --> 00:06:30.760And so it happened that Sir Hector, that14300:06:30.760 --> 00:06:34.020had great livelihood about London, rode unto the14400:06:34.020 --> 00:06:34.360Joust.14500:06:34.680 --> 00:06:36.960And with him rode Sir Kay, his son,14600:06:37.320 --> 00:06:40.160and young Arthur, that was his nourished brother.14700:06:41.020 --> 00:06:43.540And Sir Kay was made knight at all14800:06:43.540 --> 00:06:44.320Hallowmas afore.14900:06:45.220 --> 00:06:46.960So they rode to the Joust ward.15000:06:47.660 --> 00:06:49.540Sir Kay lost his sword for he'd left15100:06:49.540 --> 00:06:50.980it at his father's lodging.15200:06:51.280 --> 00:06:53.240And so he prayed young Arthur for to15300:06:53.240 --> 00:06:54.120ride for the sword.15400:06:54.940 --> 00:06:57.820I will well, said Arthur, and rode fast15500:06:57.820 --> 00:06:58.700after the sword.15600:06:59.140 --> 00:07:01.020And when he came home, the lady and15700:07:01.020 --> 00:07:02.580all were out to see the jousting.15800:07:03.280 --> 00:07:05.940Then was Arthur Ross and said to himself,15900:07:06.360 --> 00:07:08.240I will ride to the churchyard and take16000:07:08.240 --> 00:07:10.220the sword with me that sticketh in the16100:07:10.220 --> 00:07:12.860stone for my brother Sir Kay shall not16200:07:12.860 --> 00:07:14.360be without a sword this day.16300:07:15.160 --> 00:07:17.300So when he came to the churchyard, Sir16400:07:17.300 --> 00:07:19.460Arthur alighted and tied his horse to the16500:07:19.460 --> 00:07:19.860stile.16600:07:20.300 --> 00:07:22.020And so he went to the tent and16700:07:22.020 --> 00:07:23.780found no knights there for they were at16800:07:23.780 --> 00:07:24.380the jousting.16900:07:24.700 --> 00:07:27.060And so he handled the sword by the17000:07:27.060 --> 00:07:30.580handles and lightly and fiercely pulled it out17100:07:30.580 --> 00:07:33.060of the stone and took his horse and17200:07:33.060 --> 00:07:34.560rode his way until he came to his17300:07:34.560 --> 00:07:37.520brother Sir Kay and delivered him the sword.17400:07:38.080 --> 00:07:39.920And as soon as Sir Kay saw the17500:07:39.920 --> 00:07:42.900sword, he whisked well, it was the sword17600:07:42.900 --> 00:07:43.640of the stone.17700:07:43.980 --> 00:07:45.840And so he rode to his father Sir17800:07:45.840 --> 00:07:48.780Ector and said, Sir, lo, here is the17900:07:48.780 --> 00:07:51.900sword of the stone, wherefore I must be18000:07:51.900 --> 00:07:53.000king of this land.18100:07:53.720 --> 00:07:56.480When Sir Ector beheld the sword, he returned18200:07:56.480 --> 00:07:57.940again and came to the church.18300:07:58.200 --> 00:08:00.460And there they all alighted, all three, and18400:08:00.460 --> 00:08:01.380went into the church.18500:08:01.740 --> 00:08:03.920And anon he made Sir Kay swear upon18600:08:03.920 --> 00:08:06.260a book, how he came to that sword.18700:08:06.940 --> 00:08:10.060Sir, said Sir Kay, bye-bye brother Arthur,18800:08:10.500 --> 00:08:11.560for he brought it to me.18900:08:12.160 --> 00:08:15.040How gatchy this sword, said Sir Ector to19000:08:15.040 --> 00:08:15.320Arthur.19100:08:16.040 --> 00:08:17.980Sir, I will tell you, when I came19200:08:17.980 --> 00:08:20.220home for my brother's sword, I found nobody19300:08:20.220 --> 00:08:22.320at home to deliver me his sword.19400:08:22.580 --> 00:08:24.600And so I thought my brother Sir Kay19500:08:24.600 --> 00:08:26.060should not be swordless.19600:08:26.060 --> 00:08:28.520And so I came hither eagerly and pulled19700:08:28.520 --> 00:08:30.620it out of the stone without any pain.19800:08:32.580 --> 00:08:34.159So, gives you a flavour.19900:08:35.299 --> 00:08:39.059These days, that sort of repetition and what20000:08:39.059 --> 00:08:41.039have you would probably be edited out.20100:08:41.179 --> 00:08:43.020I noticed that there was, you know, you20200:08:43.020 --> 00:08:44.540say something once and then you say it20300:08:44.540 --> 00:08:45.260again and then again.20400:08:45.540 --> 00:08:47.360But anyway, it still reads pretty well.20500:08:47.420 --> 00:08:50.120There's only a few archaic words, like wist20600:08:50.120 --> 00:08:52.920and attorneying, all things which I think you20700:08:52.920 --> 00:08:54.400can get over quite quickly.20800:08:54.640 --> 00:08:56.660So, if in terms of going to the20900:08:56.660 --> 00:08:58.660source of Arthur Tales, don't be put off21000:08:58.660 --> 00:09:02.340by the age of the Mork D'Arthur.21100:09:03.300 --> 00:09:05.780But I would very much advise dipping in21200:09:05.780 --> 00:09:08.200rather than trying to sit down and read21300:09:08.200 --> 00:09:09.520it all in one gulp.21400:09:09.880 --> 00:09:12.240I remember studying this at university and I21500:09:12.240 --> 00:09:13.520think I had a week to do it.21600:09:13.960 --> 00:09:17.140And I got sort of dizzied by the21700:09:17.140 --> 00:09:18.280number of different knights.21800:09:18.440 --> 00:09:20.580But you can see the very strong bones,21900:09:20.680 --> 00:09:23.280shall I say, of the Arthurian legends here.22000:09:24.200 --> 00:09:27.440And Malory has absorbed all the stories that22100:09:27.440 --> 00:09:29.760have gone before and produced a very readable22200:09:29.760 --> 00:09:34.200version of King Arthur, which has really influenced22300:09:34.200 --> 00:09:35.340what came next.22400:09:36.380 --> 00:09:40.600So, while King Arthur was a popular folkloric22500:09:40.600 --> 00:09:44.400figure, he really comes again in sort of22600:09:44.400 --> 00:09:48.340a new flourishing when it came to the22700:09:48.340 --> 00:09:49.660romantic poets.22800:09:50.560 --> 00:09:54.660And in particular, I would point to Keats,22900:09:55.260 --> 00:10:01.280who I think gives the sensibility rather than23000:10:01.280 --> 00:10:05.740the knockabout stuff that you find in Malory,23100:10:05.900 --> 00:10:08.920which is much more folkloric in its feel,23200:10:09.080 --> 00:10:10.760the sort of Jack the Giant Killer feel23300:10:10.760 --> 00:10:12.620to Malory.23400:10:13.320 --> 00:10:16.280Keats gives it that melancholy air, which I23500:10:16.280 --> 00:10:19.220think is often found in the art about23600:10:19.220 --> 00:10:22.520Arthur and the sense of loss that's in23700:10:22.520 --> 00:10:23.360the Arthur tale.23800:10:24.260 --> 00:10:28.980And, of course, probably his most famous Arthurian23900:10:28.980 --> 00:10:32.300poem is La Belle Dame Sans Merci.24000:10:33.660 --> 00:10:37.240So, this is a ballad, which is the24100:10:37.240 --> 00:10:40.080verse form which, of course, many Arthurian tales24200:10:40.080 --> 00:10:45.660come in, including Malcolm's Grail poem, and it24300:10:45.660 --> 00:10:48.280has a haunting call and answer.24400:10:49.240 --> 00:10:51.560Oh, what can ail the knight-at-arms,24500:10:51.720 --> 00:10:53.620alone and palely loitering?24600:10:54.120 --> 00:10:56.620The sedge has withered from the lake, and24700:10:56.620 --> 00:10:57.780no birds sing.24800:10:59.080 --> 00:11:00.740Oh, what can ail the knight-at-arms,24900:11:00.920 --> 00:11:02.460so haggard and so woe-begone?25000:11:03.040 --> 00:11:06.020The squirrel's granary is full, and the harvest's25100:11:06.020 --> 00:11:06.280done.25200:11:07.480 --> 00:11:09.960I see a lily on thy brow, with25300:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.100anguish moist and fever-dew, and on thy25400:11:13.100 --> 00:11:16.040cheeks a fading rose, fast whizzereth to.25500:11:17.080 --> 00:11:19.060I met a lady in the meads, full25600:11:19.060 --> 00:11:20.580beautiful, a fairy's child.25700:11:20.920 --> 00:11:23.200Her hair was long, her foot was light,25800:11:23.520 --> 00:11:24.920and her eyes were wild.25900:11:25.820 --> 00:11:27.580I made a garland for her head, and26000:11:27.580 --> 00:11:29.700bracelets too, and fragrance own.26100:11:30.300 --> 00:11:32.140She looked at me, and she did love,26200:11:32.260 --> 00:11:33.320and made sweet moan.26300:11:34.120 --> 00:11:36.400I set her on my pacing steed, and26400:11:36.400 --> 00:11:38.460nothing else saw all the day long.26500:11:39.280 --> 00:11:41.140For side long was she bend, and sing26600:11:41.140 --> 00:11:42.420a fairy's song.26700:11:43.180 --> 00:11:44.040And so it goes on.26800:11:44.500 --> 00:11:48.080So the poor knight has been put under26900:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.380the spell and left in the wasteland.27000:11:50.940 --> 00:11:53.340So if you're looking for a place to27100:11:53.340 --> 00:11:56.100read about King Arthur, which picks up this27200:11:56.100 --> 00:11:59.520feeling of melancholy and loss, Keats is definitely27300:11:59.520 --> 00:12:01.240one to go for.27400:12:02.740 --> 00:12:04.780But of course, the poet of the 19th27500:12:04.780 --> 00:12:08.940century, came after Keats, who is most famously27600:12:08.940 --> 00:12:12.200associated with the stories of King Arthur, is27700:12:12.200 --> 00:12:12.600Tennyson.27800:12:12.780 --> 00:12:15.220And there's a really interesting connection between Tennyson27900:12:15.220 --> 00:12:19.400and Tolkien, because of course, he is the28000:12:19.400 --> 00:12:22.820writer that was the most famous poet of28100:12:22.820 --> 00:12:27.560that era, and would have been in the28200:12:27.560 --> 00:12:30.880bones of all of Tolkien's generation.28300:12:31.480 --> 00:12:35.140He wrote, of course, The Lady of Shalott28400:12:35.140 --> 00:12:36.280and poems like that.28500:12:36.480 --> 00:12:38.640She left the web, she left the loom,28600:12:38.780 --> 00:12:40.860she made three paces through the room, the28700:12:40.860 --> 00:12:42.620one with the mirror cracked from side to28800:12:42.620 --> 00:12:42.840side.28900:12:43.140 --> 00:12:46.440So famous it's become used for titles of29000:12:46.440 --> 00:12:47.500books like Agatha Christie.29100:12:48.220 --> 00:12:52.560But a longer cycle of poems that he29200:12:52.560 --> 00:12:55.700wrote, The Idols of the King, is a29300:12:55.700 --> 00:12:58.980very ambitious retelling, a bit like Mallory, of29400:12:58.980 --> 00:13:02.240pretty much the span of Arthur's life.29500:13:02.900 --> 00:13:05.000I'm going to read you Arthur's passing.29600:13:06.380 --> 00:13:08.960And tell me if you feel there's a29700:13:08.960 --> 00:13:12.140resonance here about something that happens in Tolkien.29800:13:13.880 --> 00:13:16.640Arthur announces that he is going to the29900:13:16.640 --> 00:13:20.180island valley of Avilon, to be healed of30000:13:20.180 --> 00:13:21.180a grievous wound.30100:13:22.620 --> 00:13:25.960So said he, that's Arthur, and the barge30200:13:25.960 --> 00:13:28.340with oar and sail move from the brink,30300:13:28.760 --> 00:13:31.600like some full-breasted swan that, fluting a30400:13:31.600 --> 00:13:34.700wild carol ere her death, ruffles her pure30500:13:34.700 --> 00:13:37.600cold plume and takes the flood with swarthy30600:13:37.600 --> 00:13:38.020webs.30700:13:38.960 --> 00:13:43.060Long stood Sir Bedivere, revolving many memories, till30800:13:43.060 --> 00:13:46.080the hull looked one black dot against the30900:13:46.080 --> 00:13:49.340verge of dawn, and on the mere, the31000:13:49.340 --> 00:13:50.680wailing died away.31100:13:51.940 --> 00:13:54.120But when that moan was passed for evermore,31200:13:54.720 --> 00:13:57.560the stillness of the dead world's winter dawn31300:13:57.560 --> 00:14:00.100amazed him, and he groaned, the king is31400:14:00.100 --> 00:14:03.280gone, and therewith all came on him the31500:14:03.280 --> 00:14:06.660weird rhyme, from the great deep to the31600:14:06.660 --> 00:14:08.620great deep he goes.31700:14:10.240 --> 00:14:13.060So that's standing watching the boat sailing west,31800:14:13.620 --> 00:14:15.820with the man left on the shore, who31900:14:15.820 --> 00:14:18.120is the one to go home and tell32000:14:18.120 --> 00:14:18.640the tale.32100:14:19.280 --> 00:14:22.500It can't help but remembering Into the West,32200:14:23.040 --> 00:14:26.460and Sam and Pippin and Mary watching the32300:14:26.460 --> 00:14:29.100boat sailing off to the Undying Lands.32400:14:29.540 --> 00:14:32.160And that architecture of the lands of the32500:14:32.160 --> 00:14:36.220West being the places of healing, of course,32600:14:36.280 --> 00:14:40.480is something which is taken from the Arthurian32700:14:40.480 --> 00:14:45.460legend, but is passed through Tolkien's own imagination32800:14:45.460 --> 00:14:49.660to become the land of the elves, the32900:14:49.660 --> 00:14:50.560Undying Lands.33000:14:52.660 --> 00:14:56.660So there is Tennyson who sits, you know,33100:14:56.700 --> 00:15:01.140he is the colossus poet of things Arthurian33200:15:01.140 --> 00:15:02.200in the 19th century.33300:15:02.680 --> 00:15:06.400But we shouldn't forget that someone who Tolkien33400:15:06.400 --> 00:15:09.080admired, that is William Morris.33500:15:09.720 --> 00:15:12.000And he is very interesting when it comes33600:15:12.000 --> 00:15:15.160to the world of King Arthur, because he33700:15:15.160 --> 00:15:17.340actually gives it a feminist spin.33800:15:17.560 --> 00:15:21.140Some of his early poetry is a defense33900:15:21.140 --> 00:15:21.940of Guinevere.34000:15:23.080 --> 00:15:25.700Her defense, when I say feminist, I mean,34100:15:25.780 --> 00:15:29.360the defense is that of the defiant queen34200:15:29.360 --> 00:15:31.700actually able to have her own voice.34300:15:32.960 --> 00:15:35.820And it's an interesting one in that she's34400:15:35.820 --> 00:15:38.900posing a problem to the lords who are34500:15:38.900 --> 00:15:39.700accusing her.34600:15:40.200 --> 00:15:43.660And she's asking them to imagine that someone34700:15:43.660 --> 00:15:46.100comes, someone comes to them one night and34800:15:46.100 --> 00:15:48.980says, one of these cloths is heaven and34900:15:48.980 --> 00:15:49.840one is hell.35000:15:50.540 --> 00:15:53.820Now choose one cloth forever, which they be,35100:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.420I will not tell you, you must somehow35200:15:56.420 --> 00:15:56.960tell.35300:15:57.840 --> 00:16:00.120It's also sort of saying the impossibility of35400:16:00.120 --> 00:16:02.260making right choices in life.35500:16:03.000 --> 00:16:07.100William Morris also writes other poems from the35600:16:07.100 --> 00:16:09.460Arthurian cycle, but he is part of the35700:16:09.460 --> 00:16:13.560visual world of Arthur in the Pre-Raphaelite35800:16:13.560 --> 00:16:16.880and in the paintings that you've probably seen35900:16:16.880 --> 00:16:18.040much reproduced.36000:16:18.660 --> 00:16:23.100There was the enjoyment of the whole world36100:16:23.100 --> 00:16:27.800of heraldry that surrounds the bigger world, the36200:16:27.800 --> 00:16:30.060universe in our modern world.36300:16:30.440 --> 00:16:32.380It's the Arthurian universe.36400:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.640So going on from the time of the36500:16:36.640 --> 00:16:41.600Victorians who had great fun with the Arthur36600:16:41.600 --> 00:16:44.180stories, and they became an important part of36700:16:44.180 --> 00:16:47.840the island story and you move into the36800:16:47.840 --> 00:16:49.680more cynical 20th century.36900:16:50.740 --> 00:16:53.100But what you get there is a change37000:16:53.100 --> 00:16:56.780in tone, but some very interesting runs at37100:16:56.780 --> 00:16:57.300Arthur.37200:16:58.100 --> 00:16:59.780And one of which of course is T37300:16:59.780 --> 00:17:01.260.S. Eliot's The Wasteland.37400:17:01.840 --> 00:17:05.440One of the stories which is an important37500:17:05.440 --> 00:17:07.960part of the Arthurian cycle is that of37600:17:07.960 --> 00:17:10.980the quest for the grail and the Fisher37700:17:10.980 --> 00:17:14.200King's castle is surrounded by a wasteland.37800:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.200And it's that wasteland that T.S. Eliot37900:17:18.200 --> 00:17:23.940is nodding to when he calls his impressively38000:17:23.940 --> 00:17:27.880revolutionary poem The Wasteland.38100:17:28.400 --> 00:17:33.040So it's using everybody's familiarity with Arthur to38200:17:33.040 --> 00:17:37.280have that as a heartbeat underneath his poem.38300:17:38.480 --> 00:17:42.400His poetic contemporary takes us into the world38400:17:42.400 --> 00:17:45.080of the Inklings and that is Charles Williams,38500:17:45.860 --> 00:17:52.060who is the most bizarre and intriguing of38600:17:52.060 --> 00:17:53.360the Inklings.38700:17:53.780 --> 00:17:58.580The London born publisher who became friends with38800:17:58.580 --> 00:18:01.500first C.S. Lewis and then Tolkien and38900:18:01.500 --> 00:18:04.460spent some of the war years in Oxford39000:18:04.460 --> 00:18:07.960taking full part in the Inklings, but sadly39100:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.000died during an operation in 1945.39200:18:12.200 --> 00:18:17.620And he regarded Arthur as his main theme39300:18:17.620 --> 00:18:17.920really.39400:18:18.060 --> 00:18:20.820It appears as the main theme of his39500:18:20.820 --> 00:18:23.700own poetry, Taliesin through Logres.39600:18:23.880 --> 00:18:27.920Logres being a word for England in the39700:18:27.920 --> 00:18:30.980Arthurian cycle and regions of the summer stars,39800:18:31.460 --> 00:18:36.420which are an unusual take on the Arthurian39900:18:36.420 --> 00:18:36.900stories.40000:18:37.460 --> 00:18:39.780But he also uses the quest for the40100:18:39.780 --> 00:18:42.740Holy Grail as the main theme in his40200:18:42.740 --> 00:18:45.840fabulous fantasy work The War in Heaven.40300:18:47.220 --> 00:18:49.300And he was also working on an Arthurian40400:18:49.300 --> 00:18:51.120piece as he died.40500:18:52.620 --> 00:18:54.320So just to give you a little taste40600:18:54.320 --> 00:19:00.380of how Charles Williams sees King Arthur, I40700:19:00.380 --> 00:19:01.940thought I'd read you a little bit from40800:19:01.940 --> 00:19:02.660his poetry.40900:19:02.660 --> 00:19:05.320They're very dense and quite hard to understand.41000:19:06.000 --> 00:19:08.780So I'm going to take one of his41100:19:08.780 --> 00:19:12.640most unusual ones, which is where Lancelot turns41200:19:12.640 --> 00:19:13.800into a werewolf.41300:19:14.260 --> 00:19:15.340Now bear with me.41400:19:16.960 --> 00:19:19.800It sounds strange, but there is a source41500:19:19.800 --> 00:19:22.740for this in the story, which is that41600:19:22.740 --> 00:19:26.780Lancelot comes to Peles's castle, Peles's Carboneck, where41700:19:26.780 --> 00:19:29.880the Grail is kept, the wounded king, the41800:19:29.880 --> 00:19:30.480Fisher King.41900:19:31.320 --> 00:19:36.200And he is tricked into sleeping with the42000:19:36.200 --> 00:19:40.980king's daughter Elaine, believing her to be Guinevere.42100:19:41.640 --> 00:19:44.680And finding out this double betrayal is what42200:19:44.680 --> 00:19:45.580drives him mad.42300:19:45.880 --> 00:19:49.460And he turns into this wolfish character.42400:19:49.920 --> 00:19:52.700And it's referred to in the legends as42500:19:52.700 --> 00:19:53.660him running mad.42600:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.760And Williams gives it this particular spin.42700:19:57.340 --> 00:19:58.140So here we are.42800:19:58.980 --> 00:20:02.120Peles the wounded king lay in Carboneck, bound42900:20:02.120 --> 00:20:04.560by the grating pain of the dolorous blow.43000:20:05.180 --> 00:20:08.120His flesh from dawnstar to noontide day by43100:20:08.120 --> 00:20:10.740day, ran as a woman's under the moon.43200:20:11.940 --> 00:20:14.060In midsun he called on the reckless heart43300:20:14.060 --> 00:20:16.560of god and the emperor, he commended to43400:20:16.560 --> 00:20:18.740them and commanded himself and his land.43500:20:19.760 --> 00:20:22.540Now in the wolf month, nine moons had43600:20:22.540 --> 00:20:25.700waned since Lancelot Ridden, on a merciful errand,43700:20:26.120 --> 00:20:27.780came that night to the house.43800:20:28.380 --> 00:20:31.200There drugged and blurred by the medicated drink43900:20:31.200 --> 00:20:34.800of Bryson, Merlin's sister, he lay with the44000:20:34.800 --> 00:20:37.800princess Elaine, supposed Guinevere.44100:20:38.460 --> 00:20:41.540In the morning he saw, he sprang from44200:20:41.540 --> 00:20:44.540the tall window, he ran into a delirium44300:20:44.540 --> 00:20:45.760of lycanthropy.44400:20:46.120 --> 00:20:49.060He grew backward all summer, laired in the44500:20:49.060 --> 00:20:49.660heavy wood.44600:20:50.960 --> 00:20:54.100In autumn King Peles's servants brought him news44700:20:54.100 --> 00:20:56.760of a shape glimpsed on the edge of44800:20:56.760 --> 00:21:00.820Brosselandi, a fear in the forest, a foe44900:21:00.820 --> 00:21:02.120by the women's well.45000:21:03.720 --> 00:21:06.940All the winter the wolf haunted the environs45100:21:06.940 --> 00:21:07.780of Carboneck.45200:21:08.460 --> 00:21:11.360Now what was left of the man's contrarious45300:21:11.360 --> 00:21:13.940mind was twinned and twined with the beast45400:21:13.940 --> 00:21:14.980bent to feed.45500:21:15.660 --> 00:21:17.800Now it crept to swallow the seed of45600:21:17.800 --> 00:21:20.600love's ambiguity, love's taunt and truth.45700:21:21.080 --> 00:21:25.100Man he hated, beast he hungered, both stretched45800:21:25.100 --> 00:21:27.620his sabres and strained his throat.45900:21:28.360 --> 00:21:30.800Rumble of memories of love in the gaunt46000:21:30.800 --> 00:21:34.400belly told his instinct, only that something edible46100:21:34.400 --> 00:21:35.260might come.46200:21:36.120 --> 00:21:39.020Slathering he crouched by the dark arch of46300:21:39.020 --> 00:21:43.260Carboneck, head high howling, lusting for food, living46400:21:43.260 --> 00:21:47.220for flesh, a child's flesh, his son's flesh.46500:21:48.000 --> 00:21:49.480Now a bit of a plot spoiler, his46600:21:49.480 --> 00:21:54.960son by that strange happenstance turns out to46700:21:54.960 --> 00:21:58.740be Galahad who later saves the day and46800:21:58.740 --> 00:22:01.480heals everybody by achieving the grail quest.46900:22:02.920 --> 00:22:06.320So that is the extraordinary world of Charles47000:22:06.320 --> 00:22:09.560Williams and Arthurian Tales and of course at47100:22:09.560 --> 00:22:12.540this time we're getting films taking on King47200:22:12.540 --> 00:22:14.520Arthur but the kind of Arthur you get47300:22:14.520 --> 00:22:19.380in the films is more of the romance47400:22:19.380 --> 00:22:23.480as in the medieval romance version.47500:22:24.380 --> 00:22:28.040It's taken away from its intensely Christian roots47600:22:28.040 --> 00:22:29.960of the grail quest and those kind of47700:22:29.960 --> 00:22:35.340stories and and concentrating more on the court47800:22:35.340 --> 00:22:39.160drama and of course over in America you've47900:22:39.160 --> 00:22:43.520got Mark Mark Twain writing a Yankee in48000:22:43.520 --> 00:22:44.960the Court of King Arthur and things like48100:22:44.960 --> 00:22:47.120that so it's just shifting the story in48200:22:47.120 --> 00:22:49.700a more sort of commercial in that case48300:22:49.700 --> 00:22:51.020comedic version.48400:22:52.420 --> 00:22:55.560So you can see how the King Arthur48500:22:55.560 --> 00:22:57.580story is reinvented at all times and in48600:22:57.580 --> 00:22:58.460many places.48700:23:00.440 --> 00:23:04.120Moving to Tolkien himself, I mentioned the echo48800:23:04.120 --> 00:23:06.100at the end of Lord of the Rings48900:23:07.120 --> 00:23:10.460of the ships leaving for the west but49000:23:10.460 --> 00:23:13.080all throughout Tolkien there are echoes of the49100:23:13.080 --> 00:23:17.520Arthur story with the special swords, the return49200:23:17.520 --> 00:23:21.620of the king, Arthur is obviously fated to49300:23:21.620 --> 00:23:22.140return.49400:23:22.140 --> 00:23:27.180In Tolkien's version it isn't the same king49500:23:27.180 --> 00:23:29.720who returns it's his heir, Elendil's heir who49600:23:29.720 --> 00:23:31.540is returning but that idea of the king49700:23:31.540 --> 00:23:34.580coming back in the hour of need is49800:23:34.580 --> 00:23:41.080underpinning Aragorn's story and Tolkien himself was working49900:23:41.080 --> 00:23:45.160on his own Arthur stories and Sir Gawain50000:23:45.160 --> 00:23:46.920in the Green Knight was a huge area50100:23:46.920 --> 00:23:49.740of scholarly interest to Tolkien and he did50200:23:49.740 --> 00:23:50.660his own translation.50300:23:52.140 --> 00:23:56.900Moving over to C.S. Lewis, he too50400:23:56.900 --> 00:24:01.220loved the Arthur stories and where I find50500:24:01.220 --> 00:24:05.100it most apparent in C.S. Lewis's work50600:24:05.100 --> 00:24:10.260is in Prince Caspian because the children Peter,50700:24:10.920 --> 00:24:15.800Lucy, Susan and Edmund are basically King Arthur.50800:24:16.320 --> 00:24:20.240They are summoned back to Narnia like King50900:24:20.240 --> 00:24:24.540Arthur and come to the rescue of Prince51000:24:24.540 --> 00:24:25.200Caspian.51100:24:26.020 --> 00:24:28.180So, Lewis is doing his own little version51200:24:28.180 --> 00:24:33.420of the Arthurian tale but it runs all51300:24:33.420 --> 00:24:37.240throughout the Arthur stories including the way people51400:24:37.240 --> 00:24:42.220behave in Narnia with the quest for the51500:24:42.220 --> 00:24:43.660white stag and things like that.51600:24:43.780 --> 00:24:48.100They are all Arthurian themes and the way51700:24:48.100 --> 00:24:53.160they are imagined as dressed in the regalia51800:24:53.160 --> 00:24:57.060of a knightly court and the balance of51900:24:57.060 --> 00:24:59.200the shared power structure if you put it52000:24:59.200 --> 00:25:02.840like that is quite round table in Narnia.52100:25:04.280 --> 00:25:09.300But there is another version of the Arthurian52200:25:09.300 --> 00:25:15.740tale which comes in Lewis's Ransom Trilogy, the52300:25:15.740 --> 00:25:20.840Space Trilogy, which is that hideous strength.52400:25:22.520 --> 00:25:27.140The Ransom Trilogy is a very uneven work52500:25:27.140 --> 00:25:29.340in many ways because it shifts around from52600:25:29.340 --> 00:25:30.860different genres really.52700:25:31.020 --> 00:25:32.260The first being more of a kind of52800:25:32.260 --> 00:25:35.580Flash Gordon out into space version and then52900:25:35.580 --> 00:25:40.680you've got this meditative Miltonic visit to Paralandra.53000:25:41.400 --> 00:25:43.140And then in the last one, very influenced53100:25:43.140 --> 00:25:45.400by Charles Williams, you've got the matter of53200:25:45.400 --> 00:25:49.000Arthur coming up and so taking over the53300:25:49.000 --> 00:25:54.400story and Ransom, our philologist hero, becomes the53400:25:54.400 --> 00:25:56.260Fisher King, the wounded king.53500:25:56.260 --> 00:26:00.660You've got Merlin returning and you've got the53600:26:00.660 --> 00:26:04.380replaying of many of the Arthur stories in53700:26:04.380 --> 00:26:05.480that book.53800:26:05.980 --> 00:26:08.680I find that one a hard read, so53900:26:08.680 --> 00:26:10.440I wouldn't suggest this is the first thing54000:26:10.440 --> 00:26:13.560you start to read if you are doing54100:26:13.560 --> 00:26:17.300an Arthur reading for your Tolkien celebration.54200:26:18.100 --> 00:26:22.220There was a very recent and excellent adaptation54300:26:22.220 --> 00:26:25.820by the BBC, a radio drama, of that54400:26:25.820 --> 00:26:29.760which ironed out some of the judicious editing54500:26:29.760 --> 00:26:33.380and reinterpretation of some of the less happy54600:26:33.380 --> 00:26:35.620parts of that story and I really enjoyed54700:26:35.620 --> 00:26:35.940it.54800:26:37.340 --> 00:26:39.660In fact, when I go back to that54900:26:39.660 --> 00:26:41.460Hideous Strength, the more I like it.55000:26:41.920 --> 00:26:44.340It's one of those books which I really55100:26:44.340 --> 00:26:46.980didn't like first reading and then when I've55200:26:46.980 --> 00:26:48.840gone back, I found more things in it55300:26:48.840 --> 00:26:49.220to like.55400:26:49.500 --> 00:26:50.980I think one of the problems is the55500:26:50.980 --> 00:26:53.660married relationship between Jane and Mark in it,55600:26:53.800 --> 00:26:58.100which feels pretty, I don't like it.55700:26:58.500 --> 00:26:59.900And if you read it, you'll see why.55800:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.840A very odd version of how a successful55900:27:02.840 --> 00:27:03.980marriage would work.56000:27:05.080 --> 00:27:07.020I haven't mentioned T.H. White, of course,56100:27:07.120 --> 00:27:09.180the once and future king, a brilliant retelling56200:27:09.180 --> 00:27:14.060of the Arthur story, which underpinned the Disney56300:27:14.060 --> 00:27:17.080versions of the story.56400:27:18.440 --> 00:27:20.560And then you've got the Roger Lansing Green56500:27:20.560 --> 00:27:25.280retellings, which as a young inkling, he should56600:27:25.280 --> 00:27:25.860be mentioned.56700:27:26.400 --> 00:27:28.060He was one of the people who brought56800:27:28.060 --> 00:27:31.000Arthur stories to young people in an easier56900:27:31.000 --> 00:27:33.600form to read than Mallory.57000:27:34.320 --> 00:27:36.000I've also had a go at doing my57100:27:36.000 --> 00:27:37.680own retellings in some ways.57200:27:38.720 --> 00:27:41.360When I first was trying to think up57300:27:41.360 --> 00:27:44.960a story for my sons, I wrote a57400:27:44.960 --> 00:27:48.260trilogy called Young Knights of the Round Table.57500:27:48.840 --> 00:27:52.900It came out in 2013 and it was57600:27:52.900 --> 00:27:58.500followed by Pendragon, who has a magnificent dragon57700:27:58.500 --> 00:28:00.400on the front, and Merlin.57800:28:01.240 --> 00:28:04.320And in here, the idea is the Arthurian57900:28:04.320 --> 00:28:11.320characters, when Arthur goes to Avalon, he is58000:28:11.320 --> 00:28:14.800out of time, but Merlin is still in58100:28:14.800 --> 00:28:15.060time.58200:28:15.180 --> 00:28:17.520So Merlin is actually hiding in Silicon Valley58300:28:17.520 --> 00:28:22.620as a sort of tech wizard, and Arthur58400:28:22.620 --> 00:28:24.620is in a sort of time capsule.58500:28:25.300 --> 00:28:28.880And the children who are fighting the Fae58600:28:28.880 --> 00:28:31.600folk in the story, have to go and58700:28:31.600 --> 00:28:35.500gather the team in classic fashion to fight58800:28:35.500 --> 00:28:37.140the battle with them.58900:28:37.580 --> 00:28:39.240But it has a sort of time slip59000:28:39.240 --> 00:28:39.620element.59100:28:40.020 --> 00:28:42.300So one of my favourite scenes in it59200:28:42.300 --> 00:28:44.860is they bring back, they've got King Arthur,59300:28:44.980 --> 00:28:48.180they bring him back and they end up59400:28:48.180 --> 00:28:52.420at Blenheim Palace, where one of these show59500:28:52.420 --> 00:28:53.700jousts is happening.59600:28:54.980 --> 00:28:57.520And Arthur thinks, finally, my kind of people,59700:28:57.580 --> 00:28:59.860and he actually is taking it seriously and59800:28:59.860 --> 00:29:01.660trying to do damage, which, of course, isn't59900:29:01.660 --> 00:29:05.000at all the idea of those show tourneys.60000:29:05.200 --> 00:29:08.560So it's a clash of expectations between the60100:29:08.560 --> 00:29:10.040past and the present in that.60200:29:11.960 --> 00:29:14.760So I've had fun with the story myself.60300:29:15.620 --> 00:29:18.420And as for the most successful screen adaptations60400:29:18.420 --> 00:29:22.480of the Arthurian story, there have been many60500:29:22.480 --> 00:29:26.920attempts at this, including some films.60600:29:27.340 --> 00:29:30.000One of the problems for filmmakers is, what60700:29:30.000 --> 00:29:31.400do they choose as a story?60800:29:31.740 --> 00:29:35.620The beginning, the setup is the easiest.60900:29:36.840 --> 00:29:40.200But the end is sad and sour.61000:29:41.120 --> 00:29:44.880And the bits in between are really, Arthur61100:29:44.880 --> 00:29:47.100isn't the main character anymore, it's everybody else.61200:29:47.560 --> 00:29:48.600So in fact, I think one of the61300:29:48.600 --> 00:29:53.880most successful attempts at this was the BBC61400:29:53.880 --> 00:29:58.820TV programme Merlin, which decided to feature Merlin61500:29:58.820 --> 00:30:01.100and look at the story from the young61600:30:01.100 --> 00:30:03.920wizard's point of view in a world where61700:30:03.920 --> 00:30:06.440magic is banned and outlawed.61800:30:06.500 --> 00:30:07.700So he's sort of in hiding.61900:30:08.340 --> 00:30:10.400And it's dangerous to reveal that.62000:30:10.840 --> 00:30:11.800It's a long journey.62100:30:11.800 --> 00:30:15.120But if you stay with the series, there's62200:30:15.120 --> 00:30:17.260actually a very sweet coda right at the62300:30:17.260 --> 00:30:21.360end of the characters in the modern world,62400:30:21.660 --> 00:30:22.600which I love.62500:30:22.760 --> 00:30:24.200So do look that up if you haven't62600:30:24.200 --> 00:30:26.380found that BBC series.62700:30:26.760 --> 00:30:29.940BBC doesn't have a huge budget for special62800:30:29.940 --> 00:30:31.340effects, but they had enough to do a62900:30:31.340 --> 00:30:35.720dragon, which has the voice of John Hurt,63000:30:36.620 --> 00:30:39.960the famous actor who also played Ollivander in63100:30:39.960 --> 00:30:40.780the Harry Potter series.63200:30:40.960 --> 00:30:42.380So nice little connection there.63300:30:43.500 --> 00:30:47.060Anyway, so how better to celebrate Tolkien Reading63400:30:47.060 --> 00:30:50.300Day than dipping into some of the Arthurian63500:30:50.300 --> 00:30:50.940stories?63600:30:51.360 --> 00:30:54.060Because you'll see, filtered through a different world63700:30:54.060 --> 00:30:55.920and a different light, many of the ideas63800:30:55.920 --> 00:30:57.540actually inspired Tolkien's.63900:30:57.920 --> 00:30:59.800So it's a good place to celebrate Tolkien64000:30:59.800 --> 00:31:01.780when you're choosing your next read.64100:31:02.200 --> 00:31:03.440Thank you very much for listening.64200:31:08.350 --> 00:31:12.390Thanks for listening to Mythmakers Podcast, brought64300:31:12.390 --> 00:31:14.770to you by the Oxford Centre for Fantasy.64400:31:15.510 --> 00:31:19.350Visit OxfordCentreForFantasy.org to join in the fun.64500:31:20.050 --> 00:31:22.910Find out about our online courses, in-person64600:31:22.910 --> 00:31:26.010stays in Oxford, plus visit our shop for64700:31:26.010 --> 00:31:26.990great gifts.64800:31:26.990 --> 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