The Lord of the Rings: Rings of Power Title Reveal

Hello and welcome to Mythbakers, the podcast for fantasy fans and creatives brought to you by the Oxford Centre for Fantasy. My name is Julia Golding, I'm the Director of the Centre and an author, and today I'm joined by a friend of the Centre, Paula Calamaris, who amongst many things is an author and also an expert on creative writing. And today Paula and I, we're going to talk about the recent Amazon Prime trailer, which revealed the title of the series, expected in September. Only a very little bit of information was released, but we somehow will find a lot to talk about, I'm sure, because it gives some interesting clues. So first of all, Paula, do you want to tell us what the series is called? Well, they're calling it the rings of power. It's actually going to say Lord of the Rings and then the rings of power. I think as, you know, they want to make sure that the Tolkien family is happy with that. And as you said, it's starting on September 2nd, and it looked really intriguing. And as soon as I saw it, I said I have to send this to Julia. Yeah, it was amazing when you actually watch the clicks, because it is a very, very brief. There's no shots of actors or anything for those of you haven't yet got to it. It's like a title credit sequence, really, with molten gold being poured into a thing that says rings of power. Now, there's a little, a couple of things to draw out of this. The first thing is a funny thing that happened on social media afterwards, which was that quite a lot of people were saying it doesn't look the special effects don't look very good. Like on Reddit and faces like that, according to my son who follows it on Reddit, that hadn't struck me at all. And then they released a making of video, which shows it's actually not special effects at all. They actually really did pour molten gold or equivalent metal into a mold and then pour water on top of that to reduce the steam. So what we're looking at is actually real life footage. It just goes to show that how our appetite for special effects of mean we no longer can tell and we're accusing real things of being fake. So I know I love that. I saw that video also and I thought that that's really amazing that they actually got a blacksmith to pour the gold and to create the rings. Yes, obviously what this series is going to be is about the rings. Yeah. All of them. 20 years. There is quite a lot of beginning title sequence that have this kind of artifact being made at the moment. The crown, I think, was responsible for starting this off. So you've got a kind of lord of the rings version of the crown here. Anyway, that's a little sidebar, but let's actually talk about the content of it. The other thing that we get is a voiceover of somebody or a lady reciting the famous poem from the beginning of lord of the rings about the rings, the one ring to rule them all poem. What did you think of that? What does that tell us? That is from what I've been able to understand that's Martha's Clark and she's going to be playing gladriel. Okay, so it's the voice of the young gladriel. That also started a whole nother thread, which was people saying she doesn't sound like Kate Blanchard, but she she doesn't. I suppose you could say she's playing the younger gladriel, but actually because I also have so long she's not that much younger. She's only. She's only 2000 years younger. It's nothing. Has nothing for now. So for the more fifth you said her name. Yes. Yeah, so it's a bit of a tough act to go up against. Possibly may have been a safer play to go for a completely different voice, but anyway, we're sure that there's a reason for that within the world of the script. But I would have gone for the killer brimball myself or a voice that is like a male voice, which we don't yet know so you don't get the unfortunate comparisons. Anyway, so let's have a look at what the story of the rings of power actually means in terms of the second age. So again, let's first of all think about where we can find out information. The first and it's the easiest place for most people to go is the appendices of return of the king where there's a timeline which just and one of the timelines is of the second age. So what do you think of the highlights within that the title is leading us towards. I think it's relating us primarily, obviously towards the creation of the rings because the second age is so long. Thousands of years long and there are so many stories. I mean, you have Newman or you have. You have everybody. I mean, everybody who has an impact eventually on the third age is forging rings and they're creating difficulties. They're trying to get to Arda. They're doing to do all of these different things and you have saw on in the background trying to manipulate everybody to get ultimate power, which he will eventually do after caliber and born makes the rings. So let's just talk about that little element. Most people who have sort of paid any attention to the Tolkien stories will be familiar with Galadriel and Kellaborn who we meet in the fellowship of the ring in Lothlorian if that's both in the book and in the film, depending where you're coming at this from. Also another important person in the second age is Elrond who they will say yes, that's the guy from Riverdale who hold that very long meeting. Certainly very long meeting in the book. But there's a couple of new names or relatively new names and probably the most important of those is Kellabrimbo. Can you tell us a little bit about him and what his role is? Well, Kellabrimbo is I believe the grandson of fan or who creates the Silmarillians in the book and he is an Artificer. He makes things and he is seduced by Sarron. And he likes the idea of making these rings. So he works with Sarron, whose name I can't remember what he used to Anna something. And I can't remember his disguise name. I'm sorry. He's in disguise and he seduces him. But there's something about him that Kellabrimbo doesn't quite trust. So even though the nine rings for the mortal men and the seven for the doorflords are made under Soran's Aegis as it were, he goes off and he makes the three Elven rings for the for their lords. He makes the three of them on his own. So they're not they've never been touched by Sarron. So he has no power over them and he doesn't and Sarron doesn't really get any power over the rings until about 10, 20 years later, Kellabrimbo is finished the Elven rings. And then he makes the wandering which kind of controls rules them all as it were. So that Kellabrimbo and we'll meet a barely nasty fate, but we don't have to go there because they're going to have a series about it. But it's it's a fascinating story how how this how this elf lord can just create this stuff without without the help of Sarron who is actually a Meyer who is actually one step above or one step below the Valor. And who's turned to evil, but he appears with a seductive face. He's kind of like, you know, the beauty of Lucifer coming out. That's definitely it's like the Garden of Eden being run in a different way. It's the 10th and 10th and to knowledge or. Right. It's something about that going on there, just to gloss a name you mentioned, you mentioned Fianno, which again, if you're not really deep in the grass of the ring. Sorry. So there are patterns of stories in Tolkien and they often around an artifact that is created and then becomes a battery of dispute. So over in the West, Fianno creates the Silmarils, which are these fantastic jewels that sort of capture light. You know, they're amazing amazing desirable objects. And the first age is dominated by what happens when those are stolen because he tries to go and there's like a causes a fracture in the Elven people and which is why some of the elves come over back to middle earth and established themselves there and it is that's that's the first age really. It's a long story read about it in the Silmarillion, which as you can tell is all about the Silmarils, you know, a book that you may not have got to yet, but that's yeah, that's the Silmarillion. Can you bring many names? Yeah, turn it. Can you bring for is Fianno's grandson and his father is Kurufin and so they're part of the breakaway faction who come across the ice and set up in middle earth. And many you got to imagine that many thousands of years of passing, long time is passing, he comes over to a region called a region, which is if you're imagining the map of middle earth with the misty mountains going down the middle, it's on the western side. By the gates of Moria they come there because they've heard that the dwarves have found Mithril, which is the special metal that is meeting the core slit that Bilbo and Frodo both wear, it's a special powerful metal. They've come for that and they set up a kingdom and Elven kingdom and their friends with the dwarves. It's one of the few times in middle of history where there's a friendship between the dwarves and the elves. And so they're there with this community, which is working in harmony and into that comes Sauron in disguise and he by his cleverness, he's attractiveness and his brilliance as a creator gets seduces. It's not through a sort of passion, it's through a passion for creating things. Exactly. And that's in the Fianne or family, that's clearly one of their sort of main things they're interested in and that's what gets them. It's the desire to create. So, you know, everyone beware, all you create is out there, you can leave to ruin. So, that's the sort of story, the backstory there. Now, what do you think they're going to do with this because you've got various points you can join this story. You've got them setting up the kingdom. I think I'm going to be set. I don't think we're going to be seeing the migration of the elves there. I think they're going to be set. They're going to have been working with the dwarves and with mithril and doing their own artifacts. And once it's set up, I personally think that this is, you know, because let's face it, he's lazy. Evil, you know, evil wants to take advantage of something that's already been done. I think he's going to come in there as a seductive force. He's already, you know, messed around with everybody else all over the place. So, now he's going to focus his attention on getting the elf, elven, the elf officers to create these rings so that he can solidify his power. Well, he's not going to be able to do that so much if they're in the, in the, in the throwers of setting up their society. Yeah. So, that would make sense to me as well. And they've got the other problem of the timelines that you might get several generations of dwarves going through. You haven't got time to establish a sort of nexus of relationships if you don't just come in at the point where the crisis is about to happen. I think he's going to mention it. I think, I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure these showrunners are going to mention it because they want to talk about all of these. Some of the, some of the things that they've been paying is that the show is going to unite all the stories of the second age surrounding the rings of power. So, I would imagine setting up the kingdoms is just secondary to establishing the rings of power and distributing all 19, you know, they've got 19 rings to distribute. Yeah, I mean, the equivalent is, is saying someone go tell the, go tell the story of the 19th century. Exactly. So, you choose, oh, okay, I'm going to do it through the industrial revolution. I mean, that's what they're doing, isn't it? I think, I think so. I mean, it just, just as a matter of logistics is a writer, you just, it would boggle the mind. I mean, Tolkien did it in his appendices. He wrote them down as his backstory. Yeah, but he doesn't, he doesn't flesh out the whole backstory because it's his story. He's more interested in creating the, the third age that he's doing and he needs the second age to be there to be able to draw on. Well, so these guys are going to have to sort of fill in the blanks, but you can't fill in the blanks or thousands of years. So, you're going to have to pick and choose where they're going to have the stories. I mean, they've already said they're going to be doing the second, they've already established there will be a second season. Okay, so we don't know where the end point's going to be, but there's one aspect which we haven't mentioned when we've been talking about that is which you get from the unfinished tales in particular, which is the possibility of a secret society at the middle of this. So, Keller Brimbaugh has a secret society of the Mirdan who are dedicated to creating things and it's this is a kind of like a free base and re or something within Elvendom. That's quite different. Yeah. So, and that's where the the infiltration happens within that rather than the traditional power structures within the Elven kingdoms. So, I'm enjoying seeing how they established this and what they decide because there's not many much details about what the secret society does or anything other than makes things. So, that would be great thing to elaborate. I think that's a great idea. I hope they really do. They're reading this stuff and I'm reading it. They must have thought, oh yeah, hopefully they'll have gone back and found these things to put because we've got a series of like pegs, dates and other things. That isn't a story. That's just a set of date. So, they've got to find the narrative arc. So, a couple of, you know, we've got intersex with the different people through the rings. So, you've got the three Elven rings and the story there is about hiding them. Exactly. The seven dwarf ones where I think there were contradictory said things said throughout the Tolkien legendarium on that as to where they get them from. But it does say in the appendices of Return of the King that during the third got his ring directly from the Elven Smiths. So, that there's a sort of direct rather than from Sauron. Because Sauron was using them as a kind of bribe, you know, handing them out. So, it's possible there's a kind of division within the dwarves. I don't know if we'll see all seven dwarf lords, but, you know, you can imagine they're going to elaborate the dwarf community and their relationship with the ring. What always struck me about the dwarves is even though the rings were controlled by the one by Sauron, he didn't have that much control over them. Yeah, he really didn't. I mean, the dwarves went on their way. I mean, yeah, the rings created greed, the rings created, you know, the strife that went on between the families and all of that, you know, it shows up in the habit, you know, the things, but essentially he didn't really control them. They don't end up as the equivalent of dwarven ringwaves, do they? No. So, which maybe he's trying to do with the fact that they were created differently and their stony stubborn nature, but that that would be an interesting theme. And then, of course, there's the nine which are given to more full men of whom only a few we actually actually trace to particular leaders. But those stories may be a bit tangential to the events of the war or the. They're going to need them somewhere. Yeah, they're going to show up. I mean, obviously they're wandering around the third age, so they're there in the second. And I would imagine in the last alliance, because I'm assuming we're going to be building up to that. Yeah, okay, so let's before we let's say what the last night. This, this, you'll be pleased to hear Lord the Rings films fans as you've already seen, because it comes right at the beginning of fellowship with the ring. The last alliance of elves and men is when Gil Gallaud, another new name to many people joins up with. Melendil and Isabel Dole who are arrogance for bears and they stand against. A saueron and the ring is cut from his hand. That isn't a plot spoiler because of course it's where the films start. Yeah, that's something won't be a first series thing. I mean, if they're going to do like five series, you might reach at the end of fifth series, but there's so much material to cover. Just a little sidebar then on Gil Gallauds, you do hear about him in the Lord of the Rings in a song, which Sam actually sings. Just before the attack on weather top and you learn from there that he's an Elven King. But you can read much more about him in the other sort of talking writings. So he's a very high Lord, he's one of the sort of top notch elves who come over and set up a kingdom, which if you imagine the map of Middle Earth, it's kind of above the Shire, a big area north of the Shire. And that kingdom lasts for a very long time. And he is the hiking of all the elves in Middle Earth at that time. So another main character. Yeah, Elron's boss, that's right. And if Galadriel is in some ways the senior elf by the time you get to the third age, he was the senior elf in the second age. So that all kind of maps fairly fairly well. Okay, so one question for you, Paula, how does this connect? We were talking in our livestream about the Numenor story, because that really is the major event for humans in this. How would you connect the making of the rings and the rings of power to the Numenor story? Bearing in mind, men live like Mayflies compared to the elves who are involved in the making of the rings. Well, the common denominator, Soron. Yeah. And Soron, he not only is sitting around trying to seduce the elves and getting his way with them and creating the rings of power. He's also creating a base for himself in Numenor, which is the equivalent of Atlantis. I would imagine in many ways in that it's a group of humans who live between Arda and Middle Earth in this island kingdom where men live for many, even short-lived men live for many, many, many years, for nearly a thousand years, for very long periods of time. And they rule and they're considered almost demigods. They're given Numenor as a reward for their actions in the end of the first age. Exactly. They're given us, I suppose we call it a special blessing of longer life. And it's Elron's brother, Elros, who has chosen the mortal life who goes and sets up the lineage there. Exactly. But we've got to make the point that these are centuries and centuries and centuries. There are many stories to tell in Numenor all on its own with no connection to the rings. But there is one point of connection which comes once things go horribly wrong in a reggae and sound on basically destroys Celebrimbor's kingdom. Things are looking very bad. Elron is sent by Gilgalad to kind of help but he's kind of finds it overrun so he retreats to somewhere that becomes Rivendell. That's the founding of Rivendell. I think that's going to be important. I really think finding Rivendell and the founding of Rivendell and creating the Elron character is going to be very important. Yeah, so there's that to look forward to. But also within that Gilgalad who he's not like a Superman. He's struggling against the whole back the the arm is of Sauron and his kingdom is saved by the arrival of the Numenorian fleet. Under the King, Tom Minastir, who comes along, Numenor has flourished as a shipping power and the naval nation and they turn the tide of the battle. You see a sort of echo of this in the battle of the Pelenor when Arigorn arrives on the ships. It's a kind of smaller scale version of this but it has the same effect. It turns the battle. And then what happens is that the battle in some ways becomes between Sauron and the Numenorians and they take the very bad decision to take Sauron back to Numenor as a captive and lo and behold, he goes up to his set of tricks there and he manages to seduce the king there by the lure of power. And that's where it's with the valor. Yeah, so it's it's kind of rivaling is the Tower of Babel trying to rival the godlike powers and that that comes brings about their downfall and the tidal wave that sweeps them away. And the remnant escapes of people who have kept true to the faith and these are Arigorn's ancestors, Alendil is Aldur and Co. But that is thousands of years, I don't know, it's a long time later. And so you don't get connecting characters between the stories of the Numenorians and the events of the making of the rings and this is this for me is the biggest problem. I've been trying to figure out how that connection is going to exist. I'm going to imagine and this is only because this is just how I imagine things. I imagine that as we're telling the story of the rise of the Elven kingdoms and the rings and all of these other aspects of what's going on. I would imagine that you're going to have some sidebar episodes where you're going to have interactions with the Numenorians so that you at least know that this exists. That there's this special area of middle or of the world between Arda and middle earth that you have these humans. And from what I could understand and from what I was looking at the castles, they may have a couple hobbits. Yeah, they said the harfots are going to be in there. All I've got from that. That's definitely coloring outside the lines of. There's going to be a habit somewhere and I thought that was. I would welcome that because. Where does the where does the human touch come and for human, I mean, really hobbit. It'd be great. Wouldn't it be great if some of these hobbits were actually women. Why not have a bunch of really go get them hobbit women. I think that's a good thing. Because one of the problems problems of its time is that Lord, the rings, you can. You can actually quite easily name all the female characters on by counting off the fingers of one hand. And it definitely needs serious diversification just to be a va if you're making something new of our time that's what you would do. I'd really love to. Yeah, I really. I mean, you can, you know, I mean, woman. There is obviously there is some. You know, this is been with that's the way back. That's way in the third age, but we know there are strong. So anyway, that's that's what we hope. I hope they do more with women. I truly do. Although it looks like it just when you look at if you go online and look at the cast list, doesn't give all of the names of everyone, but there are women there. Yeah, that's a good sign. Yeah, and sort of color blind casting as well would be good, which I think they're going for. Yes, they are definitely. The world has moved on. So a couple of just sort of to round up this discussion. That it's interesting what they're going to do with Galadriel and Kellabon, because when you look at the materials talking, I don't think ever totally settled on a story as to where they were. During the second age. Now, one version of it is that they're spending some of their time in a region. And when it's overrun, they end up on. The Bay of Dol Amroth down there, and which is down where Prince Imrahil, one of the captains of Gondor, comes from. And then another story is a bit later they go across the misty mountains and take over. Laurie and when the leader of Laurie and Amroth is killed. So I don't know if they have to stick to a certain version of the story. There are various not entirely. The story is told several times slightly differently and talking with had great fun with this when he changed his mind. He always said, oh yes, the records are not clear on this subject. He allows himself to do that pretence that there's conflicting historical things. So they could actually have. Galadriel and Kellabon actually present in a region with Kellabrimbo. And there is a version of this where that's possible. And partially also there's a one I read it in one of the antennas tells that. Kellabrimbo was very fond of Galadriel, which is one of the reasons she got one of the three. Yes. Yeah. There could be a whole triangle going with. Being Hollywoodish. They might do that. I mean, he did give her one. He did give her. Yeah. And, and, and, and, um. Why not? He had the reason. And he had to figure out why he gave the rings to whomever he gave the rings to. Well, could it not be just that she was the. Let's not. It doesn't have to be because she's in love with her. It could be just that. She's the wisest. So she. Doesn't he give them to. Gil Gallad. So Gil Gallad has. He's he and Gil Gallad gives one to cure down the ship right. He's following. Give. I know. I'm talking to everyone else. Gives his ring to Gandalf. And off. So there's this little connection here that does the circle. Elrond has his because. He's a good dude and. He's clearly worthy of having the ring. So when Gil Gallad goes for the final alliance. Elrond has it. So. Yes. But I mean, the thing is with Gil Adriel again. You'll notice everybody else was a male who got the rings. Yeah. Well, at least she got there. And so she got a ring. Maybe because. Kelly. Kelly. Remember saw something in her. I will. I will agree with you on that. I'm trying. I'm reluctant to have a love triangle. Because I. But I'm just saying that was one of the things that was mentioned along the line. Yeah. I mean, they would grab onto. I would just imagine they would grab onto that almost immediately. Oh, well, that would be. Never mind. I didn't do that. Anyway. And. And I think there is one thing we should mention. There's going to be a challenge on tone. Because you alluded to it. Kenna Brimble comes to an extremely grizzly end. Yes. His body is basically put on a pole and paraded in front. The paraded in front of the. Armies of. So. It's definitely a level of violence, which is a step up from. In the films of Lord, the rings, they managed to have an element of cartoonish violence. Whenever they did any close quarter stuff. There was a often. Some joke, almost a joke aspect. Um, the whole leg of this. Yeah. 14. I'll go. Yeah. You can really feel a particular. It wasn't grizzly in the same way. Yeah. Because he. The most sort of one of the most grizzly deaths, I suppose, is. Boramir with lots of arrows in him, but it's still quite. Respectful. Uh, it's not the sort of torture aspect, which you get. Potentially here. So there's going to be a challenge there. Um, and how to cover that without making it to. Unfamely family watches. It's. I'm not sure how friendly the family family. This is going to be having seen some of the other things that show up on prime. Um, Well, we'll see. I mean, I hope so. I just because it is one of the grimest things you can just imagine it. It's just awful. But. Um, I mean, I suppose the, the Rohan people did put someone's head on a pike. Um, Yeah. No. But I suppose because it's a Urakai. It's a funny. You know, And all their blood is blue. Just so, you know, it's that kind of thing. Um, to make it so it could get the right certificate in the cinemas. Anyway, so little bit more knowledge is leaked out. So just to hit the headlines again, um, Paul, you were saying that the. Date is the second of September. Second is being released weekly as opposed to all dumped out of one go. Person I like that because it means I save for it. It's like having a box of chocolates where you only one at a time. Run and scoff the whole lot. So, you know, I like working work. Yeah. Oh, one other thing for the second season, they're moving out of New Zealand and they're going to England. Yeah, we'll see if that actually happens. They sometimes say they're going to do that. So that's all. And then it goes to a load of tax breaks. We'll see. I'll do it. There's also the aspect of, um, due to the pandemic that is much harder to get in and out of New Zealand at the moment, because of the policies of keeping COVID out rather than living with it. So that might well actually happen. Yeah. So that's, I think that, um, I'm trying to think if there's anything else that I heard or read. No, I think that's, we've recovered the basis on pretty much all of it. Yeah. Well, thanks very much, Paula. And thanks for coming in at short notice just to talk about this. My pleasure. Yeah. And thank you everyone for listening. Thanks, Julia. Take care. Bye. Bye. Bye.