The Dead Are Following - LOTR: An Author's Journey, Bk 5 Ch 2

WEBVTT

1
00:00:05.468 --> 00:00:07.769
Hello and welcome to Myth Makers.

2
00:00:08.449 --> 00:00:16.292
Myth Makers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy creators brought to you by the Oxford Centre for Fantasy.

3
00:00:16.832 --> 00:00:26.676
My name is Julia Golding and today we are doing a sidecast episode where I continue to read my way through The Lord of the Rings.

4
00:00:27.736 --> 00:00:37.070
And we have reached in book five, so we're at the beginning of The Return of the King, chapter two, The Passing of the Grey Company.

5
00:00:38.031 --> 00:00:42.517
And what we are doing in these episodes is looking at this...

6
00:00:43.699 --> 00:00:52.781
this marvellous book from the point of view of what is going on, as far as we can reconstruct it, in the mind of Tolkien as his writing.

7
00:00:53.782 --> 00:01:00.723
So I think the theme of this particular chapter, as I read around it, is second thoughts.

8
00:01:01.223 --> 00:01:06.925
What you do as a writer when you change your mind about how you're going to tell your story.

9
00:01:07.525 --> 00:01:11.786
And there are a couple of incidents here where you'll see that happen.

10
00:01:13.565 --> 00:01:20.488
So the big thing on this theme is that this chapter is in a number of sections.

11
00:01:20.528 --> 00:01:27.891
So we start with Merry, who's been left behind after Gandalf has ridden off with Pippin.

12
00:01:28.351 --> 00:01:32.153
So he's the last of the hobbits left with the remains of the company.

13
00:01:33.453 --> 00:01:34.914
And it's about what happens to him.

14
00:01:36.258 --> 00:01:45.465
And then there's a section about Aragorn daring to look into the Palantir that almost was the undoing of Pippin.

15
00:01:46.963 --> 00:01:49.625
And then there's a section about Erwin.

16
00:01:50.586 --> 00:01:55.370
There's a section in the sort of caverns of the Piles of the Dead.

17
00:01:55.830 --> 00:02:07.579
And then there's a wild hunt style ride through the lands of Gondor across the mountains where they go to the Stone of Erech.

18
00:02:08.600 --> 00:02:15.746
Now, the reason I want to sort of mention that structure is this wasn't how Tolkien originally thought he would tell this tale.

19
00:02:16.446 --> 00:02:23.271
He thought that he would put this material later on when they meet up again with the hobbits.

20
00:02:23.652 --> 00:02:30.277
The sort of latter half of this is told to Merry and Pippin much later on after the battle.

21
00:02:31.843 --> 00:02:39.272
And one of the reasons why Tolkien was thinking of that is he was probably thinking, well, we've got lots of separate stories running now.

22
00:02:39.312 --> 00:02:43.077
We've got Merry, we've got Pippin, we've got Frodo, we've got Sam.

23
00:02:43.597 --> 00:02:47.602
So perhaps I will save all that to a sort of report back phase.

24
00:02:48.243 --> 00:02:49.424
But he changed his mind.

25
00:02:50.225 --> 00:02:58.273
because he had, of course, done sections in the Two Towers where he followed just Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas.

26
00:02:58.874 --> 00:03:06.161
And so he decided to put half of that here, the episode with On the Path of the Undead.

27
00:03:07.102 --> 00:03:10.005
And I think what is interesting here is he also doesn't finish it.

28
00:03:10.506 --> 00:03:17.373
He chooses to leave it on a cliffhanger because he is building up to his biggest battle.

29
00:03:18.454 --> 00:03:19.635
Everything is mustering.

30
00:03:20.236 --> 00:03:21.237
That's the next chapter.

31
00:03:21.857 --> 00:03:29.265
And so he's holding back whether or not Aragorn is successful in summoning the dead to fight for him.

32
00:03:30.866 --> 00:03:33.448
Anyway, let's go back to the beginning of this chapter.

33
00:03:33.828 --> 00:03:40.573
It is in itself a bit of a rewind because it starts, the first part of the sentence is Gandalf was gone.

34
00:03:41.794 --> 00:03:44.656
So it immediately reminds us where we were in the narrative.

35
00:03:44.696 --> 00:03:49.760
So we've gone back to the moment where the previous chapter, they parted ways.

36
00:03:50.361 --> 00:03:56.225
Gandalf rode off on Shadowfax with, of course, Pippin in tow.

37
00:03:58.193 --> 00:04:02.057
And the section here really deals with poor old Mary's predicament.

38
00:04:02.498 --> 00:04:03.699
Everyone else is gone.

39
00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:05.781
And that's what he's thinking.

40
00:04:05.821 --> 00:04:06.902
Well, what use am I?

41
00:04:07.663 --> 00:04:15.651
And I think this is one of the beautiful things about Tolkien's writing and the most successful thing about The Lord of the Rings is

42
00:04:16.432 --> 00:04:24.155
Something that, for example, the Rings of Power is struggling with is that he remembers to have a relatable point of view at all times.

43
00:04:24.735 --> 00:04:32.118
And poor old Mary says, I don't want to be laid aside like baggage to be called for when it's all over.

44
00:04:33.817 --> 00:04:36.820
Yes, so that's a very relatable idea.

45
00:04:38.402 --> 00:04:46.451
Aragorn is full of gentle rejection, shall we put it like that, in this chapter.

46
00:04:46.511 --> 00:04:52.278
Though in Mary's case, it's very much on the lines of slightly prophetic rejection.

47
00:04:52.678 --> 00:04:53.018
really.

48
00:04:53.038 --> 00:05:03.306
Because of course, if he had taken Merry with him, Merry would have probably had a complete breakdown going on the paths of the dead, and he wouldn't have been there to help Erwin.

49
00:05:03.346 --> 00:05:09.871
So there's this sense of the fates are helping get the right people in the right places.

50
00:05:10.392 --> 00:05:13.434
So Aragorn is foreseeing this.

51
00:05:13.734 --> 00:05:16.857
Now, take a step back, that is the author planning.

52
00:05:17.357 --> 00:05:20.119
He has to give a reason why Merry isn't with them.

53
00:05:21.400 --> 00:05:25.342
And because he wants Mary for something else, or he feels he might.

54
00:05:25.822 --> 00:05:36.466
Tolkien may not have known exactly what he wanted Mary for, but he wanted Mary with the Rohan people, or else there's no one to tell that part of the story.

55
00:05:37.166 --> 00:05:40.167
So that's kind of a practical consideration in terms of craft.

56
00:05:40.688 --> 00:05:46.630
But in terms of story, Aragorn says to Mary that his road lies with him.

57
00:05:46.710 --> 00:05:47.690
That's Théoden.

58
00:05:49.871 --> 00:05:55.333
There is, of course, Mary becomes the last person that Therden sees and talks to.

59
00:05:55.393 --> 00:06:03.716
So again, this idea that Aragorn is foreseeing something here slightly, or his instinct is pointing him in the right direction.

60
00:06:04.957 --> 00:06:07.217
And then we get the arrival of these strangers.

61
00:06:07.798 --> 00:06:08.018
And...

62
00:06:09.221 --> 00:06:12.403
We're still with Merry, and so they don't know who's coming.

63
00:06:13.083 --> 00:06:14.904
Very important, don't tell us up front.

64
00:06:15.484 --> 00:06:23.008
So when the messenger says, riders are approaching at speed, don't say, oh, and they're your mates, because immediately you lose all tension.

65
00:06:23.649 --> 00:06:26.310
We don't know if they're going to be friend or foe until they arrive.

66
00:06:27.171 --> 00:06:34.034
And even the moment of revelation is held back a little bit longer because Aragorn doesn't immediately rush forward.

67
00:06:34.054 --> 00:06:34.435
There's a...

68
00:06:35.335 --> 00:06:36.356
Keep that tension there.

69
00:06:36.817 --> 00:06:43.784
But anyway, as they're approaching, Merry is sort of working out what happens if this turns into a fight.

70
00:06:44.285 --> 00:06:49.771
And he imagines himself left on his own in somewhere he doesn't know in the middle of nowhere amongst enemies.

71
00:06:51.012 --> 00:06:52.613
And he thinks, well, no good.

72
00:06:53.254 --> 00:06:54.975
He literally thinks no good.

73
00:06:55.935 --> 00:07:01.799
And so as a small person in this big world, he unsheathes his sword and decides to do his best.

74
00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:11.345
So that kind of gutsiness of the hobbits is one of their most adorable and relatable characteristics ever.

75
00:07:12.412 --> 00:07:18.475
So we get here the arrival of Aragorn's allies, the Dúnedain, have come.

76
00:07:19.536 --> 00:07:24.318
We get here a character who doesn't make it into the films, a character called Halbarad.

77
00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:28.060
So it's always lovely to dig these characters up.

78
00:07:28.320 --> 00:07:32.923
Plus we get Eladan and Elrahir, who are the sons of Elrond.

79
00:07:33.824 --> 00:07:40.590
We have heard about them briefly back in Rivendell, but again, they are characters who haven't made it into the film.

80
00:07:41.210 --> 00:07:45.134
Adaptations, it's lovely to rescue them from that obscurity.

81
00:07:45.875 --> 00:07:47.216
Remember that they're there.

82
00:07:47.236 --> 00:07:57.145
If you think, I don't always think about the films, but in the films, what they did is they gestured towards the presence of the elves by bringing Haldir together.

83
00:07:58.020 --> 00:08:03.729
and the Lorien contingent to Helm Steep.

84
00:08:03.910 --> 00:08:12.664
But they had to kill them all off because otherwise you're left with a sort of hangover of elves being in the wrong place because of the way the story is told.

85
00:08:14.153 --> 00:08:23.737
Anyway, Tolkien has a better solution to all this, which is to actually suggest that Aragorn does have some friends who are coming to his aid.

86
00:08:24.017 --> 00:08:33.161
And the people in the north, Elrond, Galadriel, Arwen, are thinking of him and sending help when needed.

87
00:08:35.202 --> 00:08:41.264
So we are remaining in Mary's point of view as these characters turn up.

88
00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:47.784
Just as a little note about Eladan and Elra here, we do actually see more about Halbarad than them.

89
00:08:48.344 --> 00:08:51.447
I think they remain in the shadows almost all the way through.

90
00:08:51.627 --> 00:08:53.128
They're very mysterious figures.

91
00:08:53.649 --> 00:08:55.150
We don't really get a handle on them.

92
00:08:57.312 --> 00:08:58.993
They didn't really get an awful lot to do.

93
00:09:00.114 --> 00:09:00.975
thinking about it.

94
00:09:01.616 --> 00:09:15.231
So I'm going to keep an eye out for them going on, but I don't remember them really becoming a character that you can sort of imagine, not like a Beragond or a Bergil, as in the last chapter.

95
00:09:15.812 --> 00:09:18.375
Anyway, let's keep an eye on the Sons of Elrond.

96
00:09:19.885 --> 00:09:27.549
So we remain in Merry's point of view and he stands down from his tension and sheaves his sword.

97
00:09:27.569 --> 00:09:28.369
That's rather sweet.

98
00:09:29.190 --> 00:09:30.030
What could he have done?

99
00:09:30.110 --> 00:09:31.451
Well, he was going to try his best.

100
00:09:32.872 --> 00:09:44.818
And almost the first thing that Halbarad says to Aragorn, or the messengers say, in fact, is Elrond says, remember the paths of the dead.

101
00:09:47.442 --> 00:09:52.826
So he's reminding Aragorn of something which we hear foot-learned later on.

102
00:09:52.866 --> 00:09:54.948
So that note of the paths of the dead.

103
00:09:55.888 --> 00:10:06.456
Of course, anybody who's done a bit of classical education or watched the Odyssey, you think about the paths of the dead as being somehow going into Hades or something like that.

104
00:10:06.776 --> 00:10:09.278
But the idea here is different.

105
00:10:09.598 --> 00:10:12.841
Tolkien has reinvented that idea, the paths of the dead.

106
00:10:14.189 --> 00:10:17.932
And there is a question raised at this point, which he delays the answer for.

107
00:10:18.192 --> 00:10:26.399
Again, one of these techniques as a writer is raise questions and save your answer for 20 how important the question is to your plot.

108
00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:29.302
It could be an enormous question, which you don't answer until the end.

109
00:10:29.882 --> 00:10:37.269
But something like this, where you have a question raised and you answer it later in the chapter is like a little mini plot hook.

110
00:10:37.849 --> 00:10:40.772
So it's quite good to put these in as well to satisfy your reader.

111
00:10:41.612 --> 00:10:46.113
And here the plot hook is who summoned the Grey Company to go to Aragorn's aid.

112
00:10:47.393 --> 00:10:53.835
And we also get a gift sent by the Lady of Rivendell, who we can probably piece together, is Arwen.

113
00:10:55.415 --> 00:11:03.897
And just as the Elrond and Eladan and Elrahir remain in the shadows, for a long time...

114
00:11:05.327 --> 00:11:09.431
the Aragorn-Arwen relationship remains shadowy and only glimpsed.

115
00:11:10.573 --> 00:11:12.074
And this is one of those moments.

116
00:11:12.194 --> 00:11:16.399
There's a hint of this relationship, and he hints again in the conversation with,

117
00:11:18.108 --> 00:11:18.408
Erwin.

118
00:11:19.608 --> 00:11:24.570
But because this isn't Aragorn's story, we don't get his inner thoughts on this.

119
00:11:24.610 --> 00:11:30.471
We just get a hint of the thing that is to become the wedding at the end of the story or towards the end of the story.

120
00:11:32.431 --> 00:11:34.332
Not the very end, as we all know.

121
00:11:35.112 --> 00:11:40.033
The company itself is retracing steps

122
00:11:42.302 --> 00:11:46.786
So if you're following in the maps, they go back to where the battle took place.

123
00:11:47.046 --> 00:11:48.588
And Gimli and Legolas, it's quite sweet.

124
00:11:48.608 --> 00:11:51.410
They show Mary around saying, this is where we did this.

125
00:11:52.731 --> 00:11:59.597
And also, if we're thinking about it as the beginning of the third book, it is a nod to recap, which is fun.

126
00:12:00.617 --> 00:12:07.023
But because Legolas and Gimli are talking to Mary, we get some sort of perspective on these newcomers.

127
00:12:08.662 --> 00:12:14.005
And Gimli says the writers of Rohan look almost as boys beside them, beside the Dúnedain.

128
00:12:15.106 --> 00:12:23.210
And the kind of language he uses for the Dúnedain is they're silent, they're like rocks, they're like Aragorn.

129
00:12:23.630 --> 00:12:30.074
And those words take us back to the Argonath, of course, which is often referenced.

130
00:12:30.834 --> 00:12:33.716
It's not referenced here, but that idea of silent and rocks.

131
00:12:34.636 --> 00:12:37.738
The Argonath is never far away from Tolkien's mind, I don't think.

132
00:12:39.583 --> 00:12:49.526
And Legolas, who of course is far older than even the Dunedin, but boys to the elves, of course, he doesn't say that, but he's probably thinking that.

133
00:12:49.966 --> 00:12:58.068
Anyway, he thinks that Galadriel is behind the message and behind the fact that the company has arrived.

134
00:12:58.973 --> 00:13:11.263
So while they're at Helm's Deep, they are given a sort of like it's a rest time when they're having something like the King's Court is gathering.

135
00:13:12.695 --> 00:13:21.619
And Therden remembers his promise to Mary, and his kindness to Mary is like rain after a drought.

136
00:13:21.659 --> 00:13:30.302
Mary sort of sees that Therden is a kind and loving lord, and his offer is very generous.

137
00:13:30.322 --> 00:13:34.124
He says to Mary, you shall be my esquire, if you will.

138
00:13:34.784 --> 00:13:40.226
That is a position of honor in a king's entourage.

139
00:13:41.422 --> 00:13:46.847
And there's a description here that Merry was filled suddenly with love for this old man.

140
00:13:47.847 --> 00:13:49.909
And this prompts him to offer his service.

141
00:13:50.930 --> 00:14:02.259
There is a deliberate pairing going on here, of course, which you must have noticed before, which is just in the previous chapter, we have Pippin offering his service to Denethor.

142
00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:02.719
And the...

143
00:14:03.800 --> 00:14:15.907
The tone around that was much more of a sort of defiance almost, proving his worth and a sense of gratitude to Boromir and the need to have a role in this war that's about to be fought.

144
00:14:17.708 --> 00:14:20.710
But Merry is much warmer, much more personal.

145
00:14:21.770 --> 00:14:24.332
Basically, Théoden is the nicer king.

146
00:14:24.352 --> 00:14:26.533
He wins on the nice king stakes.

147
00:14:27.494 --> 00:14:28.194
So, yeah.

148
00:14:29.868 --> 00:14:38.996
As a response to Theoden accepting his fealty, because this is a feudal ceremony we're seeing here.

149
00:14:39.016 --> 00:14:43.240
It's none of the vengeance for oath-breaking stuff that we got with Denethor.

150
00:14:43.901 --> 00:14:47.103
We've got actually a message of tempered love.

151
00:14:48.244 --> 00:14:50.787
Because Mary says, as a father you shall be to me.

152
00:14:52.028 --> 00:14:54.290
And Theoden says, for a little while.

153
00:14:55.695 --> 00:15:02.478
There's definitely in this whole chapter this sense of people seeing their ends.

154
00:15:04.860 --> 00:15:07.721
Everybody's a little bit prophetic in this chapter.

155
00:15:10.302 --> 00:15:15.065
So for those of you who like your horses, there's a little flurry of horse names.

156
00:15:15.905 --> 00:15:19.827
Rohirrin, Aragon's horse, has been brought down from the north.

157
00:15:21.288 --> 00:15:23.949
And Theoden is riding poor old snowmane.

158
00:15:25.212 --> 00:15:26.774
who is later to be his undoing.

159
00:15:27.394 --> 00:15:34.081
And Mary is given the pony who rejoices under the very well-chosen name by Tolkien.

160
00:15:34.161 --> 00:15:35.242
His names are excellent.

161
00:15:35.663 --> 00:15:36.303
Of Stibber.

162
00:15:37.424 --> 00:15:43.871
I don't know much about ponies, but I can imagine a Stibber, this little, solid mountain pony.

163
00:15:45.131 --> 00:15:48.113
So Aragorn has been absent for a while.

164
00:15:48.693 --> 00:15:55.218
And when he comes in, we see from Merry's point of view, so startling was the change that had overcome Aragorn.

165
00:15:56.959 --> 00:16:03.340
And he questioned Serden about how long it's going to take to muster Rohan, and this makes up his mind for him.

166
00:16:04.180 --> 00:16:09.601
How you make up decisions, how characters decide to do something, is always very important for driving the plot onwards.

167
00:16:09.621 --> 00:16:14.662
You've got to feel there's a ticking clock behind everything, and this is what's happening here.

168
00:16:15.622 --> 00:16:22.543
Tolkien is saying, you know, this plot needs to happen within a certain period or it's all going to be too late.

169
00:16:22.763 --> 00:16:25.044
That is the sort of sense in this chapter.

170
00:16:26.084 --> 00:16:30.167
And Aragorn says, we must ride our own road and no longer in secret.

171
00:16:31.027 --> 00:16:36.191
So he's actually moving very clearly in this chapter.

172
00:16:36.211 --> 00:16:40.554
It's probably the biggest step he takes to being Aragorn the king.

173
00:16:42.115 --> 00:16:50.160
With this resolve and the surety of purpose and his victory of wills over Sauron,

174
00:16:52.094 --> 00:16:56.515
is that he's moving into the legendary quality that attaches to him.

175
00:16:58.216 --> 00:17:03.837
Less of a strider, more of a Aragorn, more of a king, a lesser.

176
00:17:05.417 --> 00:17:14.080
And you find him, he's actually quite driven and grim during this whole chapter.

177
00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:18.081
So he's definitely moving up a gear, really.

178
00:17:20.215 --> 00:17:34.039
And so when everybody else is saying, oh, this is terrible that you're taking the paths of the dead, he actually is coming back with these affirmative statements that again have a hint of the prophetic about it.

179
00:17:34.699 --> 00:17:41.140
So he says to Emma, in battle we may yet meet again that all the hosts of Mordor shall stand between.

180
00:17:41.801 --> 00:17:47.382
It's a very heroic declaration and one that's referred to later in the battle of Pelennon.

181
00:17:48.005 --> 00:17:55.492
But with all this heroic stuff going on, what's so brilliant about the way Tolkien writes is he then brings it back.

182
00:17:55.652 --> 00:18:07.783
He brings it back to poor Merry, who said, at this point, he felt very small and he was puzzled and depressed by all these gloomy words.

183
00:18:09.144 --> 00:18:22.733
So perhaps for a reader who is not following every political nuance of this, particularly reading it the first time, there's an element of, yeah, we're puzzled too.

184
00:18:22.793 --> 00:18:24.013
So Mary is us.

185
00:18:24.134 --> 00:18:26.435
Mary is us thinking, what on earth is going on?

186
00:18:26.795 --> 00:18:28.156
What are these paths of the dead?

187
00:18:28.216 --> 00:18:28.897
What's happening?

188
00:18:29.477 --> 00:18:32.679
That's his role, which is delightful for us to be able to follow him.

189
00:18:34.485 --> 00:18:40.730
And he is dispatched off with Thurden and his riders, taking the hidden paths.

190
00:18:42.772 --> 00:18:49.217
At this point, in the first time of telling this, Tolkien would have carried on with Merry.

191
00:18:50.678 --> 00:18:56.162
Because this would be the point where he saved all the next material for later.

192
00:18:57.429 --> 00:19:02.592
But no, there's a little line break there and we go back to Aragorn.

193
00:19:02.612 --> 00:19:10.717
And it feels very filmic, this, like a filmic cut, because Merry rides away and then you've got Aragorn watching with Legolas and Gimli.

194
00:19:11.598 --> 00:19:14.560
And Aragorn says, there go three that I love.

195
00:19:15.900 --> 00:19:18.521
and the smallest, not the least.

196
00:19:19.822 --> 00:19:31.567
So unpacking that, he's saying he's got the greatest affection for Mary, which warms up this rejection.

197
00:19:31.607 --> 00:19:38.609
It's not saying rejection, but sending him off in another direction, that he's doing it with love and care.

198
00:19:39.990 --> 00:19:42.231
So we do get a little bit of reported

199
00:19:46.650 --> 00:19:47.751
battling with Sauron.

200
00:19:48.071 --> 00:19:58.239
In fact, Gimli is often our point of view for the rest of this chapter, though there are moments when it's Aragorn on his own, but particularly with Erwin.

201
00:19:58.639 --> 00:20:15.533
But a lot of it is, if there's going to be a sense of whose shoulder we're sitting on, it's often Gimli because he's like the other small person, the other more relatable person in the scene, particularly as Aragorn is ascending to this more legendary figure.

202
00:20:16.714 --> 00:20:26.002
Anyway, so Aragorn tells them that he has looked into the stone, the Palantir, and this has helped decide his next course of action.

203
00:20:26.883 --> 00:20:36.011
And Gimli is shocked because he, I mean, of course Gimli is shocked because he last saw Gandalf say how terrible these stones were and how they were trapped by Sauron.

204
00:20:37.150 --> 00:20:41.258
And Aragorn pulls rank, possibly for the first time.

205
00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:45.165
He says, you forget to whom you speak.

206
00:20:45.806 --> 00:20:48.732
Aragorn is rising, rising to kinghood.

207
00:20:50.352 --> 00:20:58.498
And apparently there were some complaints to Tolkien about how harshly Aragorn speaks here to Gimli.

208
00:20:58.538 --> 00:21:02.961
So he had a second thought and toned it down a little in later editions.

209
00:21:05.562 --> 00:21:12.027
So he mentions him smiling and sort of having a bit of self-deprecating humour in it as well.

210
00:21:13.187 --> 00:21:16.790
But he does say that he wrenched the stone to my own will

211
00:21:18.602 --> 00:21:23.185
If you think about Sauron is the equivalent of a Gandalf, he's a Maia.

212
00:21:24.746 --> 00:21:35.051
So this means that Aragorn is the equivalent of the strongest of men, the Elendils, the Isildurs of the past.

213
00:21:36.692 --> 00:21:44.677
He's of that stature and that kind of action proves where he is on the league table of men.

214
00:21:46.449 --> 00:21:52.010
And he goes on to say, to know that I lived and walked the earth was a blow to his heart, to Sauron's heart.

215
00:21:54.212 --> 00:21:56.053
for he knew it not till now.

216
00:21:57.294 --> 00:22:07.620
So Aragorn has purposely disturbed the ant's nest of Mordor, which of course we're going to see when we rejoin Frodo.

217
00:22:08.080 --> 00:22:10.422
He is provoking Sauron.

218
00:22:10.442 --> 00:22:12.823
He's trying to make Sauron scared.

219
00:22:13.324 --> 00:22:16.566
If you think about it as a game of chess, it's, this is my move.

220
00:22:17.486 --> 00:22:19.168
We're not just playing a defensive game.

221
00:22:19.228 --> 00:22:21.730
I'm going to do an attacking game as well.

222
00:22:22.330 --> 00:22:24.532
But it's hugely risky, of course.

223
00:22:24.632 --> 00:22:29.976
And we've got to feel that it's risky or else, again, the tension disappears from the story.

224
00:22:31.738 --> 00:22:39.364
And in that debate, particularly with Gimli, Aragon's defense is the hasty stroke goes oft astray.

225
00:22:41.974 --> 00:22:43.796
Sounds almost like a line from Burns.

226
00:22:45.777 --> 00:22:47.499
The wee slicket, timorous beastie.

227
00:22:48.159 --> 00:22:53.064
The best laid plans of mice and men, af gang aglay, which Tolkien would have known.

228
00:22:53.544 --> 00:22:56.627
There's a definite echo of that somewhere in that.

229
00:22:57.227 --> 00:22:59.669
But anyway, the hasty stroke often goes astray.

230
00:22:59.890 --> 00:23:03.673
But he's trying to provoke Sauron into making that hasty stroke.

231
00:23:05.508 --> 00:23:06.829
Gimli is very useful here.

232
00:23:07.290 --> 00:23:08.891
So let's think about the craft again.

233
00:23:09.251 --> 00:23:14.416
Gimli is super useful because he is challenging Aragorn, unlike anybody else.

234
00:23:14.436 --> 00:23:18.219
The Dunedain are obeying him because he's their leader.

235
00:23:18.620 --> 00:23:23.664
Legolas and the sons of Elrond are sort of to one side as the elves.

236
00:23:24.085 --> 00:23:29.189
Gimli as the dwarf who's thrown in with his lot in with Aragorn,

237
00:23:29.990 --> 00:23:32.132
provides that challenge that you need.

238
00:23:32.252 --> 00:23:37.036
Otherwise, this would be a very boring, this is what I'm going to do now, guys.

239
00:23:37.117 --> 00:23:38.358
Everybody come along with me.

240
00:23:38.398 --> 00:23:40.960
There'd be nothing in there to really hold our attention.

241
00:23:41.280 --> 00:23:51.670
But having Gimli pushing back and saying, hang on a minute, this is a risk, this is dangerous, allows Tolkien to seed in all of that jeopardy.

242
00:23:52.771 --> 00:23:54.953
It makes it more dynamic as a decision.

243
00:23:56.689 --> 00:24:04.388
And this is where we get the words of Malbeth the seer, which is one of those poems that Tolkien drops in from time to time.

244
00:24:05.450 --> 00:24:07.011
about the path of the dead.

245
00:24:07.031 --> 00:24:28.205
We see now that Tolkien is bringing in that Old Testament, New Testament pattern of, here are some words from the past which will guide the actions of the New Testament figure of Aragorn, in the sense that Aragorn is a little fragment of the idea of someone coming to return as a king.

246
00:24:32.181 --> 00:24:43.995
He's not saying he's a Christ, but there is an element of the returning king here, which is the kind of thing you get in the Isaiah prophecies, which then are referenced by Jesus in the Gospels.

247
00:24:44.375 --> 00:24:48.440
The kind of thing Tolkien went to church and heard regularly.

248
00:24:49.080 --> 00:24:57.408
So there's echoes of that in the idea of this seer in the past, this prophet in the past have said, in order to prove you are the king, you are to do this.

249
00:24:58.228 --> 00:25:08.978
So he's been given a challenge, but also a helpful prompt from the powers that be, sort of the heavenly powers of Middle-earth to take a certain path.

250
00:25:09.985 --> 00:25:20.207
And within this, it's notable that Aragorn is unlike the dark powers because he says, only of your free will would I have you come.

251
00:25:21.247 --> 00:25:22.228
They're not slaves.

252
00:25:22.988 --> 00:25:32.630
They're not to obey him just because he commands them, but because they want to follow him.

253
00:25:34.446 --> 00:25:40.366
And just practically speaking for the effect on the reader, part of us are thinking,

254
00:25:41.757 --> 00:25:43.157
gosh, this must be bad.

255
00:25:43.838 --> 00:25:47.939
If he's saying volunteers only for this mission, that's the equivalent, isn't it?

256
00:25:49.119 --> 00:26:05.584
And we get a little ghost story, just to make it sound even more ghastly, about where these dead come from, their failure to answer Isildur's call because they had worshipped Sauron in the dark years.

257
00:26:07.024 --> 00:26:10.285
And so we're primed, we're fully primed here.

258
00:26:11.936 --> 00:26:21.400
And just to give a sort of exclamation mark to this section, they have a heroic exit where they all gallop off.

259
00:26:22.841 --> 00:26:27.523
It would make a great sequence if ever somebody films this again.

260
00:26:29.624 --> 00:26:33.266
So they are going ahead of Merry and Théoden's party.

261
00:26:33.586 --> 00:26:35.867
So they arrive with Erwin first.

262
00:26:36.607 --> 00:26:38.008
So she's waiting for them at Edoras.

263
00:26:39.789 --> 00:26:40.049
And...

264
00:26:42.372 --> 00:26:47.634
We don't get much about Erwin, but this is one of the most important sections with her.

265
00:26:48.854 --> 00:26:56.177
I mean, we get her as Dernhelm coming forward, you know, in the next chapters with Merry, but she's hiding there.

266
00:26:56.397 --> 00:26:58.178
But here we get to see her heart.

267
00:27:00.100 --> 00:27:04.304
And what I love here is how impassioned she is.

268
00:27:05.525 --> 00:27:08.327
Tolkien is telling us just how fired up she is.

269
00:27:08.988 --> 00:27:11.690
Her eyes are resting most on Aragorn.

270
00:27:12.631 --> 00:27:16.795
She is a shield maiden, so she rejoices in their unlikely victory.

271
00:27:18.083 --> 00:27:27.131
She also has a queenly, princessly status in that she dares to question Aragorn's choice of the paths of the dead.

272
00:27:27.171 --> 00:27:38.161
And he is again gently refusing her all the way through by saying, I've been walking the lands before you were born, before you graced the land.

273
00:27:39.282 --> 00:27:43.085
He's sort of pulling seniority on her there.

274
00:27:44.543 --> 00:27:52.366
Because he is, in terms of how these royal families line up, he will be the senior royal in this relationship.

275
00:27:52.406 --> 00:27:54.407
So that's also thrumming underneath this.

276
00:27:55.827 --> 00:27:59.989
But Tolkien describes her as having her eyes were on fire.

277
00:28:00.649 --> 00:28:01.929
She is passionate.

278
00:28:02.650 --> 00:28:09.092
You don't really get to see or hear much about the physical presence of people when you think about it.

279
00:28:11.698 --> 00:28:14.520
And this is one of those times when we glimpse it.

280
00:28:15.661 --> 00:28:29.950
Actually, there was a little bit earlier on another physical mention in the Théoden Mary moment where it talks about the long hands of the king resting on Mary's brown, bent head.

281
00:28:29.970 --> 00:28:34.273
One of those rare moments when suddenly we see the physicality of these characters.

282
00:28:35.214 --> 00:28:37.095
Quite often they're fairly remote to us.

283
00:28:39.037 --> 00:28:43.121
But these fiery eyes are when she comes into focus.

284
00:28:44.582 --> 00:28:52.149
There is, in this public setting, there is a sort of intimate exchange between them is happening.

285
00:28:52.790 --> 00:28:59.016
Where the subtext, and this is where you don't put it on, the subtext becomes...

286
00:29:00.632 --> 00:29:04.954
the text in the private meeting, but this is the public section.

287
00:29:05.294 --> 00:29:08.096
So the subtext is what is being signalled here.

288
00:29:09.136 --> 00:29:13.998
And Aragorn is hinting that his heart dwells far in the north in Rivendell.

289
00:29:14.499 --> 00:29:22.142
So he is woken to the fact that she is in love with him, as he says later, in love with the idea of him.

290
00:29:24.303 --> 00:29:28.245
And they go on to have a sort of private conversation with,

291
00:29:29.499 --> 00:29:35.543
where she says, am I not of the House of Eel, a shield maiden and not a dry nurse?

292
00:29:37.364 --> 00:29:46.771
And she says, may I not now spend my life as I will, now that Therden, who she was nursing, has literally got back in the saddle.

293
00:29:48.186 --> 00:29:50.487
And Aragorn's answer is an interesting one here.

294
00:29:50.627 --> 00:29:55.350
It's not particularly a gendered answer in terms of rejecting her as a woman.

295
00:29:56.130 --> 00:30:01.093
He's putting her, if you are a shield maiden, he's saying you are under a command.

296
00:30:01.773 --> 00:30:04.335
Few may do that with honour, i.e.

297
00:30:04.675 --> 00:30:06.556
live their life as they will.

298
00:30:07.899 --> 00:30:22.166
And his comfort is a bit lacking because he says there may be need of valor, but without renown, very stoic philosophy, to fight the rearguard action when the men have failed.

299
00:30:23.707 --> 00:30:25.648
It is about male and female roles.

300
00:30:25.688 --> 00:30:26.489
Of course it is.

301
00:30:27.600 --> 00:30:41.106
But it's also here about how Rohan has failed to recognize her innate abilities and have put her in what they think is an honored position for her, but she finds as a cage.

302
00:30:42.767 --> 00:30:44.228
And she says she fears a cage.

303
00:30:45.088 --> 00:30:46.769
It's a powerful exchange.

304
00:30:47.729 --> 00:30:55.733
And it's a rare moment between men, menfolk, of language of personal desires and their heart desires.

305
00:30:57.679 --> 00:31:13.950
And one of the things which shows how intimate this gets is right at the end of this middle section, because this happens in three parts, Erwin dips from the U to the V register.

306
00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:17.161
So she drops into thee.

307
00:31:17.782 --> 00:31:23.407
They only go because they would not be parted from thee because they love thee.

308
00:31:24.548 --> 00:31:28.751
It's like you blurting out to your crush that you love them.

309
00:31:28.971 --> 00:31:35.637
It's that most mortifying, hot-exposed-to-be-wounded moment.

310
00:31:36.438 --> 00:31:39.040
So she leaves him at that point.

311
00:31:40.181 --> 00:31:43.584
And the next morning, I think she's a little broken here

312
00:31:46.710 --> 00:31:49.991
which is all preparing the ground for what she later chooses to do.

313
00:31:50.851 --> 00:31:51.752
She's desperate.

314
00:31:52.492 --> 00:31:57.213
She is going through the motions of the lady of the house, offering them the cup of farewell.

315
00:31:57.614 --> 00:32:02.235
But she is weeping, and Legolas and Gimli are quite distressed by that.

316
00:32:03.215 --> 00:32:07.577
And what is worse is she finally begs, I beg thee, take me with you.

317
00:32:08.477 --> 00:32:12.899
But of course Aragorn can't, because she is...

318
00:32:14.259 --> 00:32:22.768
Well, there's all sorts of reasons, but a simple one is she's under the command in that world of her king and her brother.

319
00:32:24.991 --> 00:32:30.276
So he has to ride off and leave her behind.

320
00:32:32.779 --> 00:32:33.560
And so that we don't

321
00:32:35.026 --> 00:32:44.050
feel too harshly about Aragorn, there is a little note here from Tolkien, the narrator.

322
00:32:45.191 --> 00:32:49.193
Only those who knew him well saw the pain that he bore.

323
00:32:50.613 --> 00:32:53.495
This isn't a light moment that Aragorn shrugs off.

324
00:32:53.515 --> 00:32:58.977
It's a moment that worries him because he's aware of how deeply wounded she is.

325
00:32:59.057 --> 00:33:02.199
And he can't help it, but he has been wounded.

326
00:33:03.770 --> 00:33:08.353
the person who wounds her by cutting off her chance of valor.

327
00:33:09.674 --> 00:33:19.680
So you've got this sense of this problem he's leaving behind, this fiery, passionate woman who might well do something desperate.

328
00:33:21.418 --> 00:33:32.985
And that, by the way, is a good thing to do as an author, because if you leave the sense of unease behind as well as the unease in front, you're creating yet more tension in your story.

329
00:33:34.086 --> 00:33:41.370
Now, there's a shift in tone after leaving Erwin, where we get to the ghost story element of this chapter.

330
00:33:43.184 --> 00:33:44.785
Very spooky atmosphere.

331
00:33:45.745 --> 00:33:50.488
So it starts in the middle of page 59, if you're reading from the three-volume version.

332
00:33:51.189 --> 00:33:58.413
The light was still grey as they rode, for the sun had not yet climbed over the black ridges of the haunted mountain before them.

333
00:33:59.233 --> 00:34:06.157
A dread fell on them, even as they passed between the lines of ancient stones, and so came to the dim halt.

334
00:34:07.515 --> 00:34:20.818
There, under the gloom of black trees that not even Legolas could long endure, they found a hollow place opening at the mountain's root, and right in their paths stood a single, mighty stone like a finger of doom.

335
00:34:22.250 --> 00:34:24.211
Now, we've met these stones before, haven't we?

336
00:34:24.632 --> 00:34:25.673
Or similar stones.

337
00:34:26.553 --> 00:34:28.955
It reminds us of Barrow Rites.

338
00:34:29.075 --> 00:34:32.397
We know this is not a good sign, these single pillars.

339
00:34:33.618 --> 00:34:38.062
But also we've got... Just look at the sort of lexical set he's using.

340
00:34:38.202 --> 00:34:40.183
Hollow, black, ancient.

341
00:34:40.824 --> 00:34:41.444
Dim halt.

342
00:34:41.944 --> 00:34:42.305
Dim.

343
00:34:43.245 --> 00:34:43.746
Silly news.

344
00:34:43.846 --> 00:34:45.247
Halt meaning wooded place.

345
00:34:46.628 --> 00:34:48.049
And, yeah, so it's...

346
00:34:49.870 --> 00:34:53.732
And evoking this atmosphere that's going to follow us for the rest of this chapter.

347
00:34:55.113 --> 00:34:58.694
And here we've moved quite firmly over into Gimli's point of view.

348
00:34:59.955 --> 00:35:02.816
Things get worse as they approach the doorway.

349
00:35:02.876 --> 00:35:09.640
Do note here that unlike in the film version where the horses run away, this was partly done because they then filmed in a studio, I think.

350
00:35:10.580 --> 00:35:12.963
Here, they need their horses because they need to move quickly.

351
00:35:13.303 --> 00:35:18.749
But anyway, they're able to persuade the horses to go with them.

352
00:35:19.310 --> 00:35:21.352
Aragorn threw his strength of purpose.

353
00:35:22.354 --> 00:35:26.378
And there's a lovely touch here where Legolas speaks to them.

354
00:35:26.398 --> 00:35:30.483
The horse whispers, Arad, to follow him, calms his fears.

355
00:35:30.543 --> 00:35:30.623
Yes.

356
00:35:32.491 --> 00:35:35.153
But the doorway itself has this wonderful description.

357
00:35:35.754 --> 00:35:39.236
Fear flowed from it like a grey vapour.

358
00:35:40.177 --> 00:35:43.820
It's emanating this sense of dread.

359
00:35:45.762 --> 00:35:56.090
And of everybody, we don't see inside Illidan and Elrahir here, but they, of course, do have part human heritage in them.

360
00:35:57.135 --> 00:35:59.297
But Legolas is our pure elf.

361
00:36:00.297 --> 00:36:02.719
Legolas is the only one not to quail.

362
00:36:04.020 --> 00:36:07.163
Because for an elf, ghosts of men have no terror.

363
00:36:09.024 --> 00:36:15.289
I mentioned in this chapter how everyone seems to be plugged into their future.

364
00:36:16.410 --> 00:36:19.492
Poor old Halberad predicts his death as he goes through.

365
00:36:19.532 --> 00:36:22.915
And he is, I'm afraid to say, on the casualty list later on.

366
00:36:24.520 --> 00:36:28.282
But of everybody, Gimli is having it worst.

367
00:36:28.842 --> 00:36:30.723
His poor little knees are shaking.

368
00:36:31.824 --> 00:36:33.404
And how does he get himself to move?

369
00:36:34.725 --> 00:36:35.826
He goads himself.

370
00:36:36.046 --> 00:36:40.668
He says, an elf will go underground and a dwarf dare not.

371
00:36:41.889 --> 00:36:49.673
This section, by the way, is really well done in the BBC audio drama version of this, if you're looking for a very atmospheric soundscape.

372
00:36:50.133 --> 00:36:52.274
I've always enjoyed the way they did this section.

373
00:36:53.382 --> 00:37:00.968
And we get this dreamlike horrific journey through the paths of the dead.

374
00:37:02.249 --> 00:37:12.017
And what I noticed here when I was reading it, how it's far more terrifying to hint at and not see what is following you.

375
00:37:12.678 --> 00:37:14.339
So they've got dim flames.

376
00:37:14.359 --> 00:37:16.281
They can't see very far.

377
00:37:17.202 --> 00:37:19.804
Nothing has sailed the company nor withstood their passage.

378
00:37:19.844 --> 00:37:20.624
So what, you know...

379
00:37:21.785 --> 00:37:24.346
that nothing's stopping them, what are they scared of?

380
00:37:25.286 --> 00:37:33.429
And yet steadily fear grew on the dwarf as he went on, most of all because he knew now that there could be no turning back.

381
00:37:34.209 --> 00:37:40.131
All the paths behind were thronged by an unseen host that followed in the dark.

382
00:37:40.831 --> 00:37:47.493
Pearl Gimli keeps falling behind, so it's particularly scary for him because he's the one often at the back.

383
00:37:48.992 --> 00:37:51.295
we meet this mysterious skeleton.

384
00:37:51.715 --> 00:37:54.819
Tolkien's very good at giving us memorable moments.

385
00:37:54.839 --> 00:37:59.083
He doesn't explain, but they're like way markers that help us imagine.

386
00:37:59.124 --> 00:38:00.185
So we meet this...

387
00:38:01.877 --> 00:38:07.799
a skeleton dressed in Rohan armour who's scrabbling at a door, but she never got through.

388
00:38:07.819 --> 00:38:18.802
I was actually interested to see when I read the reader's companion here that Tolkien did speculate as to who this person was and why he was there.

389
00:38:19.122 --> 00:38:21.823
But in the book, it's saying no one will know the tale.

390
00:38:22.323 --> 00:38:29.365
But if you want to know your answer, and if you don't, put your fingers in your ears now, Tolkien thought this was the lost...

391
00:38:30.886 --> 00:38:43.196
heir to the Gondor, sorry, the lost heir to the Rohan throne, the one which meant there was a break in the mounds and they started a new lineage.

392
00:38:44.217 --> 00:38:53.005
And he may have been trying to get into one of the places of dark worship and that his legs had been broken and

393
00:38:54.206 --> 00:38:57.288
by the wicked people and he had been left there to die.

394
00:38:57.328 --> 00:39:05.333
So Tolkien had thought about the possibility of what that story might be but he talked about it as if maybe this was the truth.

395
00:39:05.734 --> 00:39:07.695
I love the way Tolkien kind of leaves it open.

396
00:39:08.896 --> 00:39:12.658
It's as though he's receiving the stories to him through the ether.

397
00:39:12.858 --> 00:39:15.100
He's not making them up though of course he is.

398
00:39:16.421 --> 00:39:22.185
And that's one of those ones where he thinks maybe that was the truth of that but it doesn't appear on the page here.

399
00:39:23.803 --> 00:39:32.251
What does appear on the page is the dreamlike horror of this sequence experienced by Gimli.

400
00:39:32.711 --> 00:39:42.580
In a way, we get closer and closer to Gimli and Aragorn gets further and further away from us because he is becoming the Aragorn of legend.

401
00:39:44.688 --> 00:39:54.973
And it's said about Gimli, the others passed on, but he was ever hindmost, pursued by a groping horror that seemed always just about to seize him.

402
00:39:54.993 --> 00:39:58.735
It's a horrible, horrible moment for Gimli.

403
00:39:59.976 --> 00:40:07.760
And he reflects that horror when he's telling it later to the fellow, to Merry and Pippin later after the battle.

404
00:40:09.143 --> 00:40:20.209
They eventually get out of the sort of hidden caverns on the other side of the mountain into a chasm where Tolkien has this idea that you can see stars from the bottom of a chasm.

405
00:40:20.609 --> 00:40:25.151
This is based on the idea that if you're in a deep enough well, you might be able to see the stars.

406
00:40:25.191 --> 00:40:27.932
Apparently that isn't a thing, but it's a nice image, isn't it?

407
00:40:28.012 --> 00:40:29.153
It's a thing in Middle Earth.

408
00:40:29.513 --> 00:40:30.114
We're fiction.

409
00:40:30.134 --> 00:40:30.814
We're allowed this.

410
00:40:31.474 --> 00:40:32.995
So he can see a few stars.

411
00:40:34.356 --> 00:40:36.857
And Legolas now looks back and...

412
00:40:37.461 --> 00:40:39.559
And he says the dead are following

413
00:40:40.874 --> 00:40:42.535
I love this bit, a bit of poetry here.

414
00:40:43.456 --> 00:40:56.964
I see shapes of men and of horses, and pale banners like shreds of cloud, and spears like winter thickets on a misty night the dead are following.

415
00:40:58.285 --> 00:40:59.506
Wonderful stuff, really.

416
00:40:59.626 --> 00:41:00.447
Very spooky.

417
00:41:01.107 --> 00:41:07.231
And then there's an increase in pace, because Aragorn says we have to get to this stone of Erech.

418
00:41:08.695 --> 00:41:12.541
by the deadline that they've got to call the dead to fight for them.

419
00:41:13.642 --> 00:41:15.205
And so they ride off.

420
00:41:17.088 --> 00:41:19.549
as fast as possible with the dead riding behind them.

421
00:41:19.909 --> 00:41:40.614
And there is definitely here because the way the locals shut their doors and bar their houses against this wild ride, there is a sort of folklore of the British Isles, the idea of the wild hunt, the uncanny hunt that rides through your village or your town.

422
00:41:40.654 --> 00:41:42.395
You must not open the doors to them.

423
00:41:42.415 --> 00:41:43.655
There's an element of that here.

424
00:41:46.888 --> 00:41:50.550
And they reach the stone of Erek, which is actually an unusual object.

425
00:41:50.570 --> 00:41:54.472
I suppose it's like a very large palantir in some ways.

426
00:41:54.973 --> 00:42:01.496
But it's described as a black stone, a globe, the height of a man half buried.

427
00:42:02.017 --> 00:42:08.360
And of course, people have speculated in Middle Earth that it might have come from outer space because it does feel like something from a sci-fi story.

428
00:42:09.040 --> 00:42:13.123
But Tolkien explains it was brought over at the ruin of Numenor.

429
00:42:13.903 --> 00:42:23.229
So it's another of these amazing objects that was somehow transported there by these giants of people who were the Numenoreans.

430
00:42:25.670 --> 00:42:31.894
I also just want to point out here how different this plays to the film version of this.

431
00:42:33.215 --> 00:42:35.677
Because that is done in such a way that...

432
00:42:36.697 --> 00:42:44.199
Aragorn is sort of, he goes to where they are, hiding, challenges them, and is chased out, and he's not sure they're going to follow him.

433
00:42:44.699 --> 00:42:46.000
That's a kind of cliffhanger.

434
00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:49.761
And we later find out they do.

435
00:42:50.741 --> 00:42:59.243
But here, the dead have followed him from their halls to be summoned at the stone of Erech.

436
00:43:00.224 --> 00:43:04.305
And Aragorn moves into the formal language of Yi,

437
00:43:05.765 --> 00:43:11.406
Ye shall, you know, he is saying this is a word, it's his oath language.

438
00:43:11.926 --> 00:43:15.387
It's a declaration that you must stand by your oaths.

439
00:43:15.427 --> 00:43:22.909
And so his language becomes the equivalent of legal language, legally binding language in Middle-earth.

440
00:43:24.289 --> 00:43:30.730
And it's at that moment that we glimpse the unfurling of the standard that Arwen's made for him, though it's not fully revealed.

441
00:43:30.750 --> 00:43:33.931
We just see the dark, the black background because it's night time.

442
00:43:35.520 --> 00:43:42.045
And on they go, and it's still Aragorn the legend because only his will held them to go on.

443
00:43:44.127 --> 00:43:51.253
He is keeping this army together by his will and having his followers stay with him.

444
00:43:53.455 --> 00:43:56.998
We are not told at this point if they succeed.

445
00:43:58.548 --> 00:44:08.510
Again, don't lose all your attention by saying, and then they arrived and defeated the Corsairs of Umbar and it was all fine and off they go to, are they going to get there in time in Minas Tirith?

446
00:44:09.211 --> 00:44:10.651
He doesn't do any of that.

447
00:44:10.831 --> 00:44:22.894
He says, the last thing I want you to think about are beloved characters, Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas at this point, is they are riding as fast as they can with an army of the dead following them.

448
00:44:23.634 --> 00:44:28.796
An army that has betrayed its oath in the past, so we've no reason to think they won't this time.

449
00:44:29.636 --> 00:44:32.717
And so the last sentence in the chapter leaves it all open.

450
00:44:34.037 --> 00:44:36.078
But the next day there came no dawn.

451
00:44:36.398 --> 00:44:42.640
That links us back to the moment we've already seen in Minas Tirith, where there's no sunrise.

452
00:44:44.020 --> 00:44:50.942
And the Grey Company passed on into the darkness of the storm of Mordor and were lost to mortal sight.

453
00:44:52.612 --> 00:44:58.114
But the dead followed them, picking up the echo of what Aragorn said.

454
00:44:58.814 --> 00:45:03.036
So a marvellous chapter, and it's quite refreshing to be in the company of our legends.

455
00:45:04.136 --> 00:45:09.298
And it's also exciting to see Aragorn becoming this mythic character.

456
00:45:09.838 --> 00:45:14.420
But it's also interesting to see how Tolkien rethought some of the things he did.

457
00:45:15.180 --> 00:45:19.104
He's very much a writer who writes by discovery process.

458
00:45:19.124 --> 00:45:26.811
But even after he's published something, he will re-edit it, as we know famously from The Hobbit, with the Hobbit of the Ring.

459
00:45:27.271 --> 00:45:31.896
He does fine tune when he agrees if he's got something slightly wrong.

460
00:45:32.616 --> 00:45:33.358
So there we are.

461
00:45:35.080 --> 00:45:38.085
Next chapter, we go back to Mary and the muster of Rohan.

462
00:45:39.006 --> 00:45:44.214
So exciting stuff as all roads at the moment are leading to Minas Tirith.

463
00:45:44.915 --> 00:45:46.478
Thank you very much for listening.

464
00:45:51.965 --> 00:45:54.566
Thanks for listening to MythMakers Podcast.

465
00:45:55.286 --> 00:45:58.046
Brought to you by the Oxford Centre for Fantasy.

466
00:45:58.706 --> 00:46:02.467
Visit OxfordCentreForFantasy.org to join in the fun.

467
00:46:03.167 --> 00:46:10.089
Find out about our online courses, In Person Stays in Oxford, plus visit our shop for great gifts.

468
00:46:10.809 --> 00:46:16.130
Tell a friend and subscribe wherever you find your favourite podcasts worldwide.